Gay Marriage: Why do straight people care?
One of the seemingly never ending debates around the world is the concept of the gay marriage. Just Google it. No, actually stay here. (At least open it up in a new window). If you do though, you will find many arguments detailing why gay marriage should or shouldn’t be allowed.
OK straight off the bat, I am for it. But sit down, rednecks, as I have not been blinded by amoral, liberal propaganda. I have come to my decision with the aid of careful logical reasoning. And I have also some research into the opposition argument, so I am not an ignorant liberal; I have considered both sides.
But I have come to realise that even if the arguments of the “against side” were thought out with impeccable logic and reasoning (which they’re not), and made a good case, it wouldn’t make a difference to the majority of the liberal people. It is the same on the other side. The majority of people have a firm belief on this issue, and that is why arguing about it is completely useless. I know that if started ranting about equal opportunities and all, the grand majority of conservatives out there would be completely unswayed. Yes, I know whichever side you are on in this debate, my opinion will probably have next to no impact on your view. So that is why I have come up with a way everyone can be in agreement.
Why do people care?
Being a Person Who Is Against Gay Marriage, you are most likely a fundamentalist Christian. You say that:
Marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman
Please explain to me how this is at all relevant. I am assuming that you say this because you think a gay marriage will devalue your marriage. In reality, how is a gay couple getting married going to effect you? If anything, you should be glad! Imagine; opening up the right for gays to happily marry each other will mean a lot will mean more gay marriages (duh), meaning less single, sexually frustrated gays gays. The less single, sexually frustrated gays, the less chance that you or your children will be spontaneously jumped on the street and “recruited”. So this is actually a plus for you!
And anyway, shouldn’t you be worrying a little more about your own love life? Keeping gays away from each other won’t help you stay together with your spouse. You probably will end up doing divorced – look at the statistics.
Gay relationships are immoral
Assuming this is true, what they are doing does not affect you in any way! And if they are, you should be happy anyway. Because:
- Gays will go to hell if they pursue their homosexuality
And don’t give me any of that crap about wanting to ‘save them’.
people like you
You hate them and you want them to go to hell.
- Gays will probably die at an early age from AIDS
people like you
Again, don’t give me the crap about saving them. That is just a weak cover. So why, why do you really care about this?
You are afraid that you are gay
This fear has no merit. If you are gay, then you are doomed to go to hell anyway! Enjoy life while it lasts! Realise these feelings by having a gay marriage.
And if you are not? Let gay marriage happen anyway. If all these gays that you hate so very very much get married, living in sin, they will all go to hell and you won’t have any of those damn fags in heaven.
CynicPad 
You’re probably right. I have no idea what the fuss is about. I am a bit against fundamentalist Christians though.
Thank you. I do my best. Who isn’t against those crazies?
Dear jesterballz,
It is clear that you have never been exposed to a true Christian. There are no neoconservative Christians. (Neoconservatives are people like Bush, Cheney, and just about anyone else who supports their regime.)
Your research into the opposite side has proven insufficient, due first to your fallacious reasoning against it, and due second to your having researched in the wrong place.
Your arguments are fallacious because they contain two prejudices, prejudices which allowed me to determine that you’ve never met (or seen) a Christian:
1. Your assertion that I hate gays and don’t want them saved. Why wouldn’t I want to help a homosexual repent of his sin and go to Heaven with me? Who are you to accuse me of hate? If Jesus were to hate anything, which He does not, then He would hate hate.
2. Your assertion that I am afraid of being gay. Have you met me? Do you know for sure that I am afraid of being gay? Where’s your proof? How is this mere prejudicial remark a valid argument for gay marriage?
Is it not hypocritical to write a post that attempts to refute prejudiced people, when in fact your post is just as prejudiced?
Now, there is only one completely valid, irrefutable reason not to allow gay marriage, and this argument is recyclable for many other issues: God did not grant civil government jurisdiction over marriage. Legislation should neither legalize nor illegalize gay marriage, as all such legislation is void in the eyes of God.
Since the State has no jurisdiction over the affairs of marriage, it does not have a right to give heterosexual couples special benefits any more than it does to give homosexual couples special marriage benefits. If you want to get married to a woman, grab a minister, two witnesses, and a Bible and go into a Church and get married. If you want to get married to a man, grab two witnesses and a “minister” and do what the heterosexual couples do (the reading, the tears, the ring, the Man may now kiss the Other Man, etc.). This marriage will not be valid before God, but if you’re gay, do you care?
I advise all couples, heterosexual and homosexual, not to let the State act as a god and make marriage a government institution. Such leads to the tyranny that manifests the Democrats and Republicans’ agendas, creating the marriage debate that we have today.
Sincerely,
The Crown Rights Patriot
Note: The people shown in the picture that contains vulgar language on the sign are committing an action that would sacrifice their salvation if they fail to repent. The Lord does not approve of the wicked anger that enslaves the hearts of those men.
P.S. Who are the people in the second picture? I do not recognize it, so I don’t know what to make of it.
Marriage, in America, is a legal agreement. A wedding is an, oft times religious ceremony. If my place of worship allows for same-sex weddings, so be it. If my government won’t allow equal rights under the law… Therein lies the problem.
[…] Blogger jesterballz recently posted a piece about his pro-gay marriage views entitled “Gay Marriage: Why do straight people care?“. I found the post unconvincing, so I commented a response in the form of a letter. As a long letter, I think it would be appropriate to replicate here: Dear jesterballz, […]
It’s easy to explain. Fundamentalist Christians think everyone should be like them and everybody should have the same moral standards: theirs. If not, then they’re going to burn in hell.
Kind of like Republicians. You’re either with the President or you’re a terrorist.
drmike said: “Kind of like Republicians. You’re either with the President or you’re a terrorist.”
Praise God, I guess I’m a terrorist then.
My opinion about marriage is that it, being a religious ceremony, should be abandoned as a whole and replaced by civil unions for both heterosexual and homosexual couples.
Any religious people who would like to have marriages would be able to do so with the church/religious institution, but this should hold no legal, financial or political grounds.
While I would prefer that gays be allowed to partake in this marriage ceremony, it would ultimately be up to the church to decide…
I am in perfect agreement with junaman. No prophet, pastor, priest, minister or rabbi can be compelled to marry any two people. What’s needed is the freedom to register civil unions, to become legally responsible for the affairs of another person, and to become empowered to leave one’s assets to that person after death. These are civil matters and the church has no place in them.
Ditto Junaman
Well Ive brought up a son with good moral values… Junaman youre mother and I are very happy with your comment! We’ve done a good job!
Je te deteste, frenchy… bwahaha le lol lol lol rofl.
Mon francais est terrible, mais ta visage et plus laids. Ahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
crownrightspatriot,
You are making one big mistake. You are assuming there is a God at all. In fact, in a truly secular country, God officially didn’t grant anything over anything.
Also, I thought it was quite obvious that I don’t believe that everyone against gay marriage was a fundamentalist Christian. I also thought it was quite obvious that I don’t think that every single Christian out there holds up signs declaring that all gays will go to hell.
Furthermore, I do not think you are grasping the concept that marriage IS a civil union as well as sometimes a religious one. Do atheists not get married? Marriage is already a state institution. So why do you believe, exclusively on religious grounds, that gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry?
You have missed the point. My point is that gays want to have the SAME rights as heterosexuals. Their human rights are less than straight people’s, thus motivating me to write this partly SATIRICAL piece, to try and persuade those fundies out there to relax and allow gay marriage.
drmike,
Of course, that is how they control the people. They put fear into everybody, and make it unnacceptable to be different. They can’t resist pushing their beliefs onto everyone else. They say because they want to ‘save’ them. But I do wonder.
Timethief,
Well that is the ideal scenario. But that just isn’t possible with the kind of administrations that we have in power today. The best thing would be if the churches had the option of marrying couples they wanted to, but gay and heterosexual couples having the same rights otherwise.
I find this whole debate a bit of a red herring. Gay People should have all the same human rights as anyone else but is marriage a human right? As a gay man, I don’t want to be discriminated against in employment, health care, housing, etc. As long I have all the same legal rights as somebody who is married to a woman, who gives a damn whether we call it marriage, civil union or a pink jamboree.
If Jesus were to hate anything, which He does not, then He would hate hate.
Does that mean he loves hate?
Preach on man, I enjoyed the rant.
@ Robert,
That is bascially just another way of coming to what I am saying. I think junaman hit the nail on the head before:
“My opinion about marriage is that it, being a religious ceremony, should be abandoned as a whole and replaced by civil unions for both heterosexual and homosexual couples.”
And then each church could decide who to marry.
@ L.B.,
Thank you. I will.
I dont see why gay marriage and gay rights are so looked down on.
One should not be hated and mistreated for liking one type of music over another, or liking one country over another, and these seem silly things to hate people over.
Thats how I see the whole thing. It is their life to live however they want to, and if they can find love and happiness in someone of the same sex, then why is that so much different from someone who finds love and happiness in someone of the opposite sex?
If you truly believe in God (whatever you conceive Him to be), you are not following His ways by hating gay people.
Whilst I am not currently following a religion, I did learn Christianity and I never recall Jesus or God condemning people for gay relationships. It may be looked down upon, but it is not supposed to be a Christian’s way to hate such people.
I am truly for gay rights and removing the prejudices against gays and other things that are often looked down upon.
The way I see it, if they are not harming me or others, why should it be my business?
Daedalus,
It is not much different at all. You are right, they don’t anyone and the christians should just let them be.
One thing I must say though, this article was a bit offensive to read.
I am of the stance that all gay rights should be equal with heterosexual rights, and it seemed to be attacking me and outright trying to offend me.
This may make people angry before even reading your content and getting the point of the article.
I don’t know how you would be offended, but getting people angry is of no problem to me.
Huh. Quite an interesting read, article and comments alike.
Now, so you know where I’m coming from, I am also gay. I didn’t really choose it for myself or anything, in fact I spent a lot of time denying it to myself as I wasn’t sure what it might have meant. I now know that all it means is instead of being attracted to women instead I am attracted to another man, who just so happens to be someone I couldn’t imagine life without.
@crownrightspatriot:
You say that marriage is and should always be a religious thing. Don’t you find it even mildly ironic, then, that divorce is handled by the state? Also, it is as jester said, atheists get married just as christians, muslims, jews, buddhists, and pagans do, so how a religion can hold a monopoly on marriage when the secular are allowed to marry is beyond me.
Secondly, let me say it bothers me how you say it bothers me how you say you would “help” a gay “repent” his or her sin. If given a choice, if it meant an eternity in some place your imaginary avenger built for sinners, I wouldn’t WANT to repent.
Practically every one of my relatives think exactly as you do, which is the precise reason I am so terrified to tell anyone in my family. My parents know, a couple of my friends know, and my sister knows. I hide it from everyone else because they’re either not mature enough to know (In the case of one person who told me he once stabbed a gay person in the leg for grabbing his butt) or just overly religious (In the case of my grandparents, aunts/uncles/cousins who believe that it’s wrong because some invisible person in the sky said so and a book-writer decided to write it down.
@junaman
If I agreed with you any more I might be misconstrued as a yes-man. The way marriage has progressed over the years, it amazes me how anyone can say gay marriage violates the “sanctity” of marriage and still mean it when divorce rates are as high as they’ve ever been. So much for “til death do us part” I guess.
In my opinion, sexual orientation has more to do with who you love rather than who you want to screw/get screwed by, and it doesn’t matter if you are straight or gay, the love you feel towards someone remains the same, it’s the same feeling that makes you feel more alive then your best day living.
CorkOnTheFork,
You obviously have very strong opinions on this, and I agree with you all the way. Thank you for the compliments. Thank you, come again. And tell your friends!
@CorkOnTheFork
I just wish you didn’t have to be scared to tell people. It shouldn’t be such a big issue to people that they feel they have to do something to stop you.
I’m happy for you that you have found the person you love.
I have a workmate who is gay, and everybody knows it. Few have felt the need to question him about it, but some have and he is supported by our work’s code of conduct and ethics by the fact that he can report anyone who insults him, and they WILL be dealt with – seriously.
People shouldn’t have to fear others, they should be protected like my work friend and given the same rights as others.
If I was receiving abuse, I could do the same thing as he, and it would be essentially the same thing – nobody is given a lesser treatment.
I think I’m lucky to live in Australia, where there are lots of different religions, as this has caused a lot of people to be more open minded, and I don’t think we have anything against gay marriages here. Hope I’m not wrong though.
Ummm Daedalus,
Gay marriage is outlawed by the federal government in Aus. Also, the state governments discriminate heavily against gay couples, concerning superannuation and other things.
Dear jesterballz,
To refresh everyone’s memories, and so that I don’t have to keep scrolling up the page to read what you’ve written every time I want to write another sentence, here is your rebuttle to my comment:
If I had to choose one word to describe this rebuttle, it would have to be the word myopic. It was a little inaccurate in its parts, but I can clarify. What was myopic, or nearsighted, was that your chief criticism of my comment was that I believed in God. In your perfect world, the differing beliefs of others would automatically invalidate all logic and reason contained in others’ arguments. Unfortunately, just because I used the word God does not mean all of my arguments are ludicrous.
I’ll reiterate: the State does not have a right to give heterosexual couples special benefits any more than it does to give homosexual couples special marriage benefits. There, I didn’t use the word God. What is your rebuttle to this statement?
In a world without God, other institutions tend to replace Him, and that’s quite clear in the case of civil unions, where people who don’t believe in God instead go to the State to get married. Such a State would arrogate the authority of God, elevating man to a higher level than his wicked heart can peacefully exist. The State is not God, but you treat it as such.
I do not believe it is possible for two people of the same sex to marry each other. But I also believe that the State has no right to interfere if two men want to claim that they have gotten married. I’m not here to fight gay marriage; I’m here to fight civil marriage. I don’t believe the State has a right to endow rights, because once a State can endow rights, it can take them away.
—
L.B.,
You asked:
I ought to change one word in what I originally said; it should be restated, “If Jesus were to hate anybody, which He does not, then He would hate haters.” And if you asked the same question, “Does that mean He loves haters?”, the answer would be yes. I apologize for misrepresenting Jesus, as there are things which He hates. (Hate the sin; love the sinner — you’ve probably heard that before.)
—
Daedalus,
You said:
Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality — I’m not sure why — but God does condemn sodomy (gay sex). But God doesn’t discriminate between gays and straights when it comes to matters of lust — whether you’re eyeing another man or just a woman, you’ve still committed adultery in your wicked heart.
—
CorkOnTheFork,
You said:
I am no fan of divorce, no matter who handles it, the church or the state.
As for heathens getting married, it only matters what they want to do. I do not believe that marriage is possible between two men, but if they want to call it marriage, I can only object with words but not with actions (free speech). I have no intention to restrict your freedom — I only intend to teach you what freedom is (that which is endowed by God).
You also said:
Assuming that there is a God, a Heaven, and a Hell, then why wouldn’t you want to repent, believe in Jesus, and be carried off to Heaven when you die? If it’s too bright for you, I’m sure you’ll be allowed to bring sunglasses. But even if there isn’t necessarily a Heaven, Hell, or God, what you said still doesn’t make much sense (partly because of confusing wording).
“Practically every one of my relatives think exactly as you do”
I doubt it. Christianity is nearly extinct; if there were an endangered religions list, Christianity would be number two (Judaism is in an even worse state).
—
I still don’t understand who the people in the second picture are.
My final words are that there is an excuse for Godlessness; I’m not surprised that most of you are against Christianity considering the state of the American government, and the world for that matter. I pray you’ll all become disillusioned at some point in the future….
Sincerely,
The Crown Rights Patriot
crownrightspatriot,
Your problem is that you do assume there is a God. If God is real to you, it doesn’t mean he is real to everyone. The state is bigger than God, as the state applies to everyone. Furthermore, I am not asking for the state to give “special marriage benefits” to gays. I am asking them to have THE SAME rights as heterosexuals. Yes, once a state endows rights, it is able to take them away. But your God doesn’t give those rights at all.
crownrightspatriot,
There is an excuse for Godness, I’m not surprised that you are for christianity when your parents were fundamentalists and you were given no other option. I don’t pray, I act. I use my brains. You see, the difference between the your God and these “wicked” men is that the men can do things, even if they are sometimes the wrong things.
jesterballz,
You said:
But I could just as easily say that your problem is that you assume there isn’t a God. This is not getting us anywhere.
I am flabbergasted at your statist remark that “the State is bigger than God.” This is something a Communist would say to justify giving more and more corruptible power to the State. God is what keeps those who believe humble, instead of the Godless tyrants that accrue themselves vast wealth and power to abuse the God-given rights of Man. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.” Mark 10:25.
If you agree that once a state is allowed to give rights, it can take them away, then who does endow rights?
Let me just point out that if the unbiblical and unconcstitutional civil institution of marriage were deconstructed, then hetero- and homosexual couples would, inevitably have the same ability to get married, even if I would not personally define two men as having been married. All you need for a marriage are:
– Birth/death records
– A marriage certificate, NOT given by the authoritarian State
– Witnesses — the point of the traditional Best Man and Bridesmaids is for them to act as witnesses
The above will act as legal evidence of the marriage in courts of law. It was done this way in early America, when the states were still free from the tyranny of the federal government, so why shouldn’t we go back to our old, more libertarian ways?
You also said:
Actually, my parents are radical Godless liberals who are fighting for gay marriage. My choice to turn away from this life of crime came about through careful reasoning, disillusionment, and most importantly through the grace of God. One day, I woke up, and Jesus had revealed Himself to me.
For the Crown Rights of the King, Who is not Man,
The Crown Rights Patriot
crownrightspatriot,
Uhhh, well you couldn’t just as easily say I assume there isn’t a God. I assumed there was one in my original argument.
You speak of ‘godless people’ like they are inferior to Christians. They are not. You are just assuming this. I am not on the side of these tyrants either, and their respective religions have absolutely nothing to do with their tyranny. You asked me who endows rights. The state does. I said that. But I never said the state was a good thing. My point is that the state not only exists, but everyone believes the state exists. A society based on a religion is unjust, because not everybody can participate.
I don’t understand what you mean about your marriage law scenario. If you hadn’t noticed, that is exactly my point. I want the laws stopping gays getting married. (Yes marriage is actually a state institution, no matter how hard you try to pretend marriages are only valid when you say so).
Wow! You saw Jesus! Give me his phone number; I want to get him to go and heal all those starving children in the world.
crownrightspatriot,
Go to my latest post and try to explain why that is wrong. I think it is a little closer to what we are discussing.
Thought this was good!
If they are gay or thik they are gay let them be. I hacve heard all kinds of reasons from being molested, being raped, being dumped, men are dogs, women are b…. it just does not end. I also know some very anti-gay people that I think personally are closet gays that are screaming to get out but can’t for what ever reason. I am not gay and don’t care for it! But, in life I have learned just to ignore the crazy religious fanatics as to ignore teh fanatically sexually repressed! (excuse typos – pdas at 5 am is not the easiest thing to jibber on!)
christians do not hate gay people. If some do, it’s not necessarily everybody’s opinion. but the bible tells us to love everybody…
let the christians have their opinion… Gay marriages do not belong in the church. I don’t even understand why they want to get married in church… Also I cannot understand how some gay say they are christians, but why don’t they then follow the bible, when the bible clearly says that it is a sin to be gay?
Gays are welcome in the church, absolutely, but they should not be allowed to get married.
Gay people have the lurgies.
Gay marriage is a farce. Invent your own watered down institution.
And stop blocking traffic with your pansy parades.
Thanks.
@Ansoo
So why do the majority of Christians sleep around? In the Bible, that is clearly a sin worthy of stoning. Why are your priests, community leaders, instilling the (un)Holy Spirit in liquid form, in the “NO ENTRY” zones of kindergarteners? Why are kids that talk against their fathers not also killed?
Do you know that it is impossible to follow the Bible correctly, because of its own contradictions? And did Solomon set a fine example to you, with the 1000 billion wives?
Well?
*
This whole debate goes to show that God was right when in the book of Genisis He repented for making mankind-why He should too-look at the mess we make of things…we all so high and mighty and yet fat on our asses because we are lazy and slothful just like GOD says in the Bible…and it does’nt need to be the Bible-look in the Koran…look in the Talmud…men are slothful and lazy…we in the USA have eaten ourselves and laid back and watched whatever wife swapping marry the millionaire showed ourselves to fat assed deaths…everything we do is comfort-its hot we scream…zoom,here comes the A/C ahhh comfort…my fat pizza fed ass was too warm. Quick flash…across planet world to starving little kids-white kids too in the Balkins-living on sniffing glue…and we argue about God…we don’t even deserve a GOD because we is all fat assed lazy slthful backbiters who hate each other and think eqach of ourselves is the top A-1 big kahoona….look about us at all the ex cigeret smokers who have high tech electro wheel chairs and air hoses and still grasp for this screwed up life in this fucked up world…gasping for air because they purposely sucked on poison because they better than anyone and the cancer ai’nt gonna get them…thats why they have an air hose and a little rascle electro chair and 100 percent full flavored Winstons-and all curse GOD because the Red Sox won,or lost…who the heck knows. Fighting and gasping to live in a world where everything around them dies day after day. You’d think somehow for some reason we’d seek a promise of life forever with a GOD that says He loves us…and we try to pick it all apart.oh my gotta run-pizza boys here and the Dawg re-runs are inna marathon tonight to celebrate his freedom from Mexico….oh we luv Dawg so much. Look at his alcholic raged face and say…fuckin A-glad there ain’t no God.
A major problem with arguing the sinfulness of homosexuality is that one must define “sin” before making any intelligent comment We must first understand what a sin IS and why certain acts have come down to us as sins. Did God arbitrarily choose some acts and omissions and throw them in to the pot marked “SIN”? Or, is there some reason that we have been given this lengthy list of “dos” and “don’ts”?
William Spurrier defined sin as: “….the belief that man is self-sufficient, that he is the master of his fate and the captain of his soul.” In other words, we want to be like God. We tend to think that His commandments can be altered to fit our particular circumstances. Our pride makes us believe that we can save ourselves from ourselves and live our lives according to our own constructs. There are two important reasons why we always get into trouble when we try to run the show: 1. Sins are immutable, there is no turning away from them, and they always shall be as set forth by the word of God and cannot be altered to fit popular opinion or current custom. 2. Sins are acts or omissions that interfere with the natural order of things, per God’s plan. Acts that will, ultimately, destroy us.
So what does all this have to do with homosexuality? Does God care if members of the same sex share committed relationships? Probably not. Does it concern Him that members of the same sex can find themselves in love? My guess is not. Why is it, then, that “homosexuality” is among those acts that are designated as sin?
Some conservative Christians claim that HIV-AIDS is God’s way of punishing homosexuals and that God inflicts this disease on those who stray from His direction. Fortunately, God doesn’t work that way. But suppose that the situation is turned around? Suppose that there is an aspect of a sexual activity that is destructive to mankind? So destructive that it cannot be abated and no matter what measures are taken, may disappear only to return in some more virulent form. Would not this activity, with its potential to destroy lives, fit the above definition of sin? It seems to me that it would.
Now ….if we all agree that that activity is a sin (I’m a dreamer) then how ought Christians deal with the homosexuality problem? I’m going to think about that.
If people use the one verse from Leviticus as a basis for their belief that homosexuality is wrong, then they must then also follow all the other rules laid down in the old testament. You know … wonderful things like being able to sell family members into slavery, stoning to death people who work on the sabbath, farmers who plant the wrong crops, people who wear different threads.
If you are of the belief that the OT is spot on and direct from God, then you certainly can’t start picking and choosing which of the rules you follow.
Therefore unless you’re out there stoning people to death for working too hard and having protests at agricultural farms, you can sit down and be quiet.
I am an Evangelical, Bible-thumping Christian, and I don’t have any problem with Gay people getting married. It is their prerogative and none of my business. I am more concerned with the number of Christians having divorces.
The bottom line, we live in a pluralistic country, which means that people can believe what they want to believe and do what they want to do as long as it does not hurt someone else.
Now I don’t think that homosexuality is a good thing, and I do not agree with gay marriage, but I am not going to legislate against it. I am just not going to attend any gay weddings.
@marcdav
Ahhh… another Canadian?
Your thoughts are cluttered and clouded with some kind of an underlying bitterness. Why do you care that other people care? Are you secretly one of the closet “gays?”
Your thoughts are cluttered, and clouded with some kind of an underlying bitterness. Why do you care that other people care? Are you secretly one of the closet “gays?”
@timethief
Eh?
@dsc006
Who you talking to mate? If you are talking to me, you have miscontrued what I was saying. I DON”T CARE what other people do or care about. They have the right to live their own lives the way they see fit. And am I closeted gay person? I don’t think so, the only people I have lusted in my heart after were of the female variety (I am male, if you did not figure it out).
I find it a little odd that preventing homosexuals from marrying or forming long term legally defined relationships is considered protecting religious freedom. It’s only really a protection of one view point. Anyone with a religion that embraces homosexual unions is out of luck.
On the subject of what to call it, I personally hate messy legislation. If the relationship carries the same legal rights and obligations, we should use the same term, and have it governed by the same pieces of legislation. People should also be able to fill out the same form for both hetrosexual and homosexual unions and have it processed at the same locations.
As for un-named sexual activity that is destructive to mankind hinted at above in the turned tables hypothetical, there’s some serious flaws in the thinking. HIV is a disease and should really be treated as one. Want to avoid west nile, put on bug repellant and don’t loiter where the mosquitos flurish. Going outside has not become immoral nor does it mean we should convert all outdoor areas into places that mosquitos can’t breed. It’s also a generalization focused around male homosexuality. As much as lesbians should practice safe sex as well, the risk of HIV transmission when one partner is a carrier is less than straight sex. This does not mean that it is immoral for women to marry a man, nor does it mean that it is immoral for a woman to have sex with a man. Also, this does not mean that women are superior to men.
I can say similar things about other arguments against homosexuality, but there’s only so much time. To run around telling people that homosexuality is the real problem rather than to prevent disease or something like that is an irrational panic response.
I think all marriage is wrong in the first place. Let the people marry! But its wrong to make people think that its not okay to be single. Only dolphins mate for life…nothing else…why should we?
Ailuropoda Melanoleuca
Yeah I agree, gays should have the same rights as everyone else. And you are also right that using the argument about HIV/AIDS is a specious one since lesbians by and large do not get the disease. This of course means that homosexuality can only be deemed wrong on religious/theological grounds. I do think that homosexuality is NOT a good thing, but that is only my religious impulse that tells me that. I don’t want to shove my beliefs down someone else’s throat. So I believe along with you that homosexuals should have the right to marry and have civil unions just like anyone else.
Luke: 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, no, but rather division.
Luke: 52 For from now on, there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luke: 53 They will be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
I completely agree with you. I’m not gay, but I strongly support gay marriages. I mean, they can do whatever the hell they want. Why should I care?
This excerpt taken from http://blog.zzaps.com/08/05/gay-marriages-people-piss-me-off :
“Marriage is not a right, it’s a privilege. That’s why a license is required
I always thought the license being a requirement was just the government’s way of getting more money. It might be a privilege, but who decided to charge for it?
Homosexuality is not natural
I noted this above, relating to the animal kingdom example. Perhaps its not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.
Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children
Well then that must mean that infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.
Obviously gay parents will raise gay children
Because straight parents only raise straight children.
Straight marriage will be less meaningful
Since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay
In the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.
Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home
That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
“People who want to ban gay marriage say its to protect families and children. I would believe them if there was a ban on rapists, child molesters, and wife beaters getting married.” “
> In reality, how is a gay couple getting married going to effect you?
You have any idea how much money it takes ot make and pass, repeal, pass and maintain a law?
That is a lot of money. What? You didn’t think about that? OMG! haha, and to think you sounded like you had thought your argument through, I do apologise.
Using the stupid misguided judgement of the fundamentalist groups as a basis for a strawman attack on them, and that as an argument FOR your point, is a little stupid, but I don’t imagine most of your readers would be astute to notice that.
> Why do people care?
Why do gay people care about the concept of marriage? What, that question isn’t valid?
Meet Bob, he has all the same rights as every other person. One day, he realises he has a penchant for fucking hollowed out watermelons. The next day he realises that his rights are being eroded, and that fundamentalist biggots won’t give him equal rights to marry a watermelon. Sure, it is easier to just say you are liberal and your argument that people shouldn’t care sounds valid, until people realise you haven’t thought shit through.
My point on gay marriage is: EVERY MOTHERFUCKER HAS EQUALS RIGHTS. Every man has the right to marry a woman, and every woman has the right to marry a man.
That is not discriminatory, or biggoted, and I look forward to your argument otherwise. I have gay and bi friends who I am very very close with. But I would tell them to their face in the kinest way that they are misguided in their pursuit of this ambition.
They have equal rights. If they want something *like* marriage, go for it.
I like to rationalise things, and the way I see it, everyone has equal rights. It costs money for all this crap to go on. If people want to make some kind of legally binding agreement regarding their financials, hell, there are lots of lawyers waiting to take their money.
If they want to affirm their love, have a party! wear a dress, I don’t care. Get ‘married’. I love it! Invite me.
But don’t for one FUCKING ignorant moment believe that the legal definition of marraige, the protections and financial accoutrements have ANY bearing on a non heterosexual coupling.
Why? Because consensus and years of voting brought about these changes to say that when a couple get married, to start a family, buy a house, increase our societies numbers, we help them.
Biology states that this is not applicable to a non hetreo marraige, and to respect the laws and why they were made, it shouldn’t be.
Logic prevails, and I am not a bigot. I am just not a mindless fucking liberal who uses weak arguments as a way of venting against an easy target, stupid fundamentalists. I await your respose, you can email me of course, see print.wordpress.com
I’ll reply to your response to my other ‘itchslap.
[…] LOL, this blog makes even less sense than before! haha. Why am I talking a more refined quality of bullshit today? Because of one self-proclaimed saviour of the liberals: https://cynicpad.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/gay-marriage-why-do-straight-people-care/ […]
@ Robert,
I would love it if Marriage were renamed Jamboree (of any colour, choice left up to the couple) – then maybe we could drop ALL the stigmas and get on with our lives! Hell with a name like that I might even want to get married myself 🙂
@zzap: amen
@crownrights: “rebuttle”..erm. heh. (Childish, I know, but funny anyway.)
@print: Right. No more laws should be passed. Ever. You freak. The law would cost a lot less if gay marriage were simply legalized without debate.
By your logic, inanimate objects can be compared to people? A marriage is about two families coming together, and about two people promising to take care of each other for the rest of their lives. Even if they have no children (consider barren hetero couples!) they’re still saving the state money by looking out for each other and not, for example, living alone and going on welfare.
So if you made the rules, infertile straight couples should not get the rights associated with marriage, because they won’t be generating more taxpayers. And they shouldn’t get fertility treatments either, because biologically they are naturally infertile, and that would breed weak, possibly more infertile children, requiring more taxpayer support. Perfectly logical.
News flash: Lesbians a) have the lowest incidence of any STD including AIDS/HIV
b) can procreate whenever the hell they feel like it with fabulously motile sperm(sperm is, well, a rather accessible resource)
and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them. In fact, they’re capable of having MORE kids than a straight couple, because theoretically both could be pregnant at the same. By your logic, the government should support them MORE.
And about the ANAL SEX issue that a lot of you people are dancing around: STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE ANAL SEX TOO. A lot of it, apparently. To hell with all of you, then.
Rights I care about, and that I do not get in the US, are 1) the right to visit my partner in hospital if something bad happens and 2) the right of my partner to inherit me in case I die.
As far as marriage goes, I think these rights should be available for any two people (even straight single friends) who want a legal bond in the face of this cold world. But that’s my own idealistic vision. In the meantime, why make it harder for people to care for each other?
[…] Was reading this post and was surprised by the arguments against gay marriage–so many misconceptions. Attempt to clarify follows after the link. […]
Uhm… where’s it say in the bible that gays actually burn in hell, or that the church is not allowed to grant marriage to gay couples…
by the way, animals are gay too… just google “Homosexuality in animals”… i don’t suggest an image search on that topic unless it rings your ding or whatever.
WTF.
Ur analysis and views on this matter are unjustified and it seems that U need a lot more exposure regarding the matter.
It even seems that U hate gay ppl. I have got nothing to do with Ur personal preferences but U need to learn more and understand stuff rather than being so cynical.
Who are you referring to ashwin?
If it’s to the OP then how so?
Really, wtf are you on about?
Gay people are not born gay. They make the choice of going in that dirrection. Being gay is wrong and nasty. Men and Women bodies are made differently to produce more of our species. SCentifically and biblically man and man should not have sex. If you want to be more educated about it man and man cant have sex. Sex is an intercourse of a penis and a vagina which is from a man and woman. If you are gay it is wrong and nasty you are abusing your body and mind. You were made to produce more of humanity not reduce humanity. The rates of gay people getting more diseases is by far greater than straight people. God made man and woman, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Nothing can prove that gay people didnt have a choice and that its right scientificalll and bibically it is not. Gay marriage is very wrong and should be banned. You are doing this in the house of god going against his words and allowing this to happen makes it very wrong. Marriage came from the bible and is being done and abbused the wrong way by allowing the same sex to get married. No matter how you debate this the truth is that it is wrong and is a choice in life and you cant argue with fact and choice so stop trying to bring hell on earth.
Shows how much you know. We’re pretty sure that sexual preference is built into genetics – much the same way that some people like blondes, red heads or brunettes. Some people just like members of the same gender and it can’t be helped.
Also, marriage did not come from the bible and existed in cultures which predate it. Also, see my comments above – if you think homosexuality is wrong then I expect you out there stoning to death people who work on the sabbath.
Can’t argue with choice and truth It is proven Scientifally and Biblically you cannot prove that being gay is not a choice you have the choice to be or do anything you want Truth Noone is borin gay noone is waiting to comeout of the closet it is a choice Shooting someone is a choice, Having sex is a choice, Everything is about choice even being gay it is wrong and gross it is not through genetics just because your lost in your own little world of being confused doesnt mean you need to try and take other people into that world How did earth get here answer that for me How did we get here answer that and i will believe everything u say
I’ll try to decode your complete lack of grammar.
“Can’t argue with choice and truth It is proven Scientifally and Biblically”
Current scientific studies indicate that homosexuality is not a choice, it is a part of a persons genetic make-up. Much like the homosexuality behaviours observed in members of several animal species.
Biblically … well, the bible has no right to claim authority when it comes to science, genetics or even morality.
“you have the choice to be or do anything you want”
That is an entirely false statement. I have no choice when it comes to regulating automatic bodily functions, I have no choice on who I may or may not find attractive, I have no choice as to what foods I find to be delicious. Guess what? All of the above are dictated to us via genetics.
“How did earth get here”
The short answer? A few billion years ago a sun ran out of fuel and blew up, spreading various gasses and elements into space (our sun is a third or fourth generation sun). Due to the effects of gravity (and other physical laws) those elements slowly recombined into heavier elements until the amassed gravity was so great that they started the nuclear process in the form of the Sun. Some of the heavier elements fell into orbit around that sun and, in a process mimicking that which formed the sun, combined slowly into a near spherical shape and formed the Earth.
Where did these elements come from You can only go so far with the pathetic excuses If gay people were born gay Then god would not be real Then there would be no meaning to life no meaning to exsists nothing we are here for nothing but to die forever and never be born or die Choice is what gay people have made not genetics it is a choice in life just as me not eating candy again I love candy but i choose not to eat Either way you put this you still can’t argue with choice of how you live life and the truth.
Now you’re getting the hang of this 😀
Except normal people don’t see anything wrong with eating candy, nor with letting gay people do whatever the fuck they want… Our planet is getting fucked over with over population so don’t give me the shit about procreation…
I’m pretty sure I can argue with this “truth”
I think we can all safely conclude that the above user is in elementary school and rather ignorant of all the relevant subject areas; therefore attempting to educate him/her/whatever on them in a format such as this would be a waste of time.
You all have no meaning to life it’s sad that your stuck in your own little worlds of lies. It’s sad it’s people like you that the world is at war and we can’t find peace on earth, You make it sound that we have no meaning to life now I see why our world is so destroyed I’m in Elementary school lol Get off the computer stop making lies to make yourself look smarter and greater Theres a beggining but but not an end you will never prove the beggining stop hiding behide the computer and books of lies and look into reality. I have a way better outlook in life.
Um Kevin. The world is at war because people like you are imposing their religious beliefs on other people, sometimes violently.
Some “reality” for you: It was pretty clear I was gay by the time I was seven years old. (Wasn’t molested or anything, just was always more of a tomboy) Hardly a choice, just a fact that I didn’t notice, but everyone else did. No one in my family was surprised when I “came out” when I was twenty. They were wondering what took me so long.
My personal view is, people are gay AND God made them that way, ie God exists and cares about all the different kinds of people in the world a lot more than you so-called Christians do. Jesus never said one word about homosexuals. He did tell us frequently to care about each other. You seem to have missed that part.
And if you think sex is only inserting a penis into a vagina, you’re in for a sad, mechanical sex life, poor boy. No blow jobs for you.
If we had no religious beliefs there would no be no earth no rules no laws nothing but chaos and terror. There would be no rules to life no laws and teh people who live by god will not know of a god and the ten commandments and not know that killing someone is bad that stealing isnt bad it is the people like you because we are at war and we kill each other because you make people believe that is something that is ok because you say there is no meaning to life. So dont try and make yourself sound like you know what your talking about. Blow jobs are oral sex not sex. sex is a penis that has intercourse with a vagina. One more fact did you know that gay guys have to wear diapers because they have had so much dick up their ass their asshole has been stretched how so far. Now come on that couldnt be normal for people thats not how the body is supposed to be like thats gross and wrong no matter how you put it it is still wrong
That’s incredibly funny. “Sex is a penis that has sex with a vagina.” I want that as a T-shirt.
Straight people have anal sex too, you know. Type in “anal sex” into google and have a look at how much straight porn shows up. Apparently for some, it’s a popular way to avoid getting a girl pregnant. Plus I guess it doesn’t count as sex! Whee! Go for it!
I say there is no meaning in life? When? Huh? If the ten commandments are the only thing stopping you from stealing or killing, then you’re not a moral person, you’re an animal following rules for fear of punishment. God expects a bit more autonomy from you.
Gay men wear diapers!?! Where exactly are you getting your bizarre “facts” from? They’re really just plain weird.
Ask your doctor about if a gay guy taked it up the ass for a very long time what will happen to their ass
Wow, so many clever ad hominems I can throw at you now… but I don’t feel like it.
You’ve ignored nearly everything veltis said…
Kevin’s demonstrated ignorance is astounding, it truly is.
You are assuming that your point of view is the appropriate, common sense, point of view: why do you care? It does not affect you.
That position is the ‘liberal’ position: I’ll grant you the freedom to make your own decisions, without my interference, and I’ll make my own decision, based on my beliefs and will, unadultered by your opinion.
Anti-gay-mariage people have the opposite point of view (religious, spreading the Good work kind of people) they see themselves as the protector of morale and are there to save you from yourself (see where your own decision or will do not count here) and if you are doing something they think is ‘wrong’, then you must be stopped.
– But why do you care? It does not affect you!
– It does affect me, knowing you are entering in a homosecual relationship affects me, because it is wrong.
– It’s not wrong, you think it is wrong. I think I should be doing whatever I want.
– And I think you are wrong. Come here, homosexual person, I have arranged for a public stoning for you.
—
See? While the argument of “why do you care?” is very valid in a normal conversation, is a good point and appeals to normal people’s common sense, it has no effect on religious fanatics. They are there to protect ‘us’ from ‘ourselves’.
@Kevin, re: Anal sex
Don’t know what kind of quacks you’ve been visiting–this is from Columbia University Health Services:
“Anal sex is not a prerequisite for being a gay man. Conversely, being a gay man is not a mandate for enjoying anal sex. Many gay men do not have anal sex. In fact, oral sex and mutual masturbation are more common than anal stimulation among gay men in long-term relationships. And while many people stereotypically view anal stimulation as a homosexual male act, anal sex is a sexual behavior, not tied to a group of people whether they describe themselves as homo-, bi-, or heterosexual. Physical, emotional, social, and sexual attractions, not behaviors, are key factors in a person’s understanding of his or her sexual orientation…Studies indicate that about 25 percent of heterosexual couples have had anal sex at least once, and 10 percent regularly have anal penetration.”
I’d also like to know what your argument is against two WOMEN getting married. You seem rather obsessed by male genitalia and all the things it can be used for, but that doesn’t really apply to lesbians.
it is dissapointing to me that gay marriage has become such an enormus issue in todays society when our planet is deterioratiing and people are starving and wars are being fought and diseases are being spread and children are being abused and sexually assulted. if the church is really as great as it is supposed to be it would quit worrying about gay marriage and do something that will really be worthwhile in the eyes of god.
Marriage is both about being an institution for stronger financial outlook and about love. Governments have no right to quash the legal options available to gay or lesbian members of community. It doesn’t matter if the majority of people say that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. The point is that putting curbs on the rights of minority groups, just because the majority supports it, is not standing up for liberty.
Frankly, it shouldn’t matter if marriage is between a man and a pig. Given current social norms however, such a person is liable to be labelled a fool – because the right to do something doesn’t equate with the right not to be laughed at while doing it. Marriage is an area where individual decisions should reign. Equalising homosexual and heterosexual relationships in the eyes of the law (especially with regards to superannuation and intestacy law) is fundamental to achieving a just outcome for gays. Some laws may have to be rewritten to ensure compatibility, but the difficulty of the task doesn’t seem a very good reason to not undertake it.
you no wat you all make me sick…why in the world would you want to go to hell for??? that beats me but whatever you need help, and anyone else that is for gays, i hope you find a STRAIGHT path to follow, have fun in Hell if you die without chrust just think of how long 4ever is and just think of the pain you’ll go through, when you are in hell just think of this…you won’t like it and God still loves you
Christ*****
i dont know why people be worrying bout other people life. You dont see gays going all out trying to stop the opposite sex marriages. gays dont mess w/ anyone so i think we should just let em live their life. you also just cant say dat they gone go to hell b/c in some people religion hell might not even exist. i hear people say all the time dat gay mariages are a discase to humanity.dats just like saying if ur christian than you think buddhism is a disgrace to humanity b/c of their beliefs. everyones entitled to a opinion but be careful what you say b/c dats not right in god eyes either and karma is a muthafucka
i think your right an dpeople should watch wat they say
As a straight daughter of gay male parents, I feel that gay marriage is an especially difficult practice. My parents were often cruelly ironic with me about the trials I went through as a straight teenage girl, especially because my only sister is gay too. I was left out of almost every conversation, almost every day. Their political activism was to show me how much they cared about a just society –but they were unable to show me love and respect in their own home, at their own supper table. They had so many negative things to say about straights all the time. It hurt! A lot! Indeed, dealing with a the razor tongue and bitter humor of a gay man as a gawky 11-16 year old dealt my self-esteem some heavy challenges! I left home early for college and didn’t look back for along time. I’m 37, and only now beginning to see that my parents were, and still are, unwilling to accept my own difference (of being straight) from their own difference (of being homosexual).
Alas, when I hear gay family activists giddily anticipating their role as “Please Don’t Eat The Daisies” brusbands, I fear they want kids for the wrong reason: to have whatever the Jones’ have.
Raising another human being –gay OR STRAIGHT, black or white, with the CHILD’S best interest in mind should be the driving point of parenthood. The right to marriage and parenthood is not about you; it’s about your baby! Parenthood is not something to undertake to expand your own rights! Being a parent is about surrendering your own life to be the guardian of your child’s life with UNCONDITIONAL love and acceptance. So, gay guys out there, if your child is straight, love them, respect them, and care for them as you would if they were gay. Could you love them and help them to adjust to what they are without trying to push what you are upon them? without resentment? Please love your straight son or daughter, accept them unconditionally, and give them the respect you wish you had received when you were their age.
DANG THAT’S TOO DOWN!! LOL
Since when are all us liberals “godless”? I go to church and vote democratic. I just think we need to stop worrying about gays and focus on ending poverty and this corrupt war.(FYI I’m straight) also we should impeach bush. being gay is biologigal any ways, not a choice and I doubt God discriminates against His creation. and about AIDS being God’s “punishment” against gays, I seen something about a married couple who only had sex with each other get AIDS (the man was infected with a blood transfusion after a car accident-he was almost killed by a drunk driver)
he passed it on to his wife and his son who was born after they were infected. all 3 of them died of AIDS. also the boy wasnt gay he died a virgin(he was 6) unless God punishes people for being on the road with a drunk driver(come on he was the victim-he wasnt drunk-the maniac who hit him was)God is not concerned with loving Homo relationships.
What you fail to understand is the impact on a society that this would have. Never mind that even the animals have figured out how to do it the right way.
All successful species have two major biological imperatives:
1) survive
2) reproduce
guess which way #2 works best? ah yes, when you use the right parts on the right gender, the opposite one.
People usually say that they have nothing against homosexuals but I personally don’t think that is the right way of living.
fuck gay people…hate them from the deep of my heart
Hey “me”:
http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/061116_homosexual_animals.html
@hate gays: You don’t think it’s the right way of living…so you HATE them. A bit extreme, no? I personally think that Mormons’ polygamy is a bit weird and maybe not the best way to live, but I think they should be allowed to live as they please, and I certainly don’t HATE them. What’s the point?
@Suran: Sorry you ended up in such a crappy situation. Some people, both gay and straight, are just not cut out for parenthood. I’ll love and support my kid, no matter what he or she turns out to be! Doing otherwise would be hypocritical and deeply unfair.
My husband and I are a heterosexual couple,we are very religious but believe Who are any of us to tell another person who they can or can’t love?
Thanks for good post!
btw, free gay porn here