Gotta Hate Those Stinking Christian…
One of the pet hates of most atheists is religious people preaching. Let me clarify a little. I hate it when those stinking bible-bashers can’t help but push their beliefs on to me. Although I have some experience of being Koran (never Tanakh) bashed, the evangelical Christians in the good ol’ US of A are the major problem.
Let me just explain to all those who have been lucky enough to avoid these turkeys. They are all around you:
Consider an innocent atheist, run of the mill Christian or some other normal person is browsing the Internet. He stumbles across a website with some bland newsy name, and decides to read a couple of stories. It is like an alternate Universe! Iraq is going well, apparently. The country is dangerously overflowing with Muslims, illegal immigrants, democrats and Halloween costumes that are becoming “too sexy”. Don’t be fooled! This is one of the conservative, evangelical Christian propaganda “news” websites.
Then you go into a chat room or forum, and they are there as well. Quoting Bible verses, telling you to end your “life of sin”. Then you have Bible-bashers at the door, on TV, on the radio, in the government…
And there are even people with the mission to seek and convert every single person in the world. They just can’t resist. Look at this and this and tell me they don’t make you feel a little disgusted. These people are systematically converting the entire world.
It’s not only that they get on my nerves. It’s that these people are so tied up in their own beliefs that are willing to do morally reprehensible things to force them on anyone they can. Yes, I believe it is morally reprehensible to seek and convert people in developing countries. Obviously these people think they are doing the right thing. But they part of something bigger. A large-scale brainwashing is taking place, deadening the brains of all who are targeted, turning them all into conservative, hate filled Republicans.
I am not preaching atheism! This is not a hypocritical post.
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Yeah, sometimes Christians are idiots. Sometimes regular people are too. What are you religious beliefs (other than being anti-christian)?
Aaah Joseph,
You have read my other posts. I would have thought you had assumed I was an atheist. Well I am.
I in fact did assume that, but there are many different kinds of atheism, just as there are many different kinds of theism. Which kind are you?
To be detailed…
-What does your moral structure look like?
-How do you believe faith vs. reason function?
-Is atheism a faith?
-Do you recognize that it is as difficult to
prove the non-existence of God as it is to prove
God’s existence?
-Is there absolute truth or are you a relativist?
-Are there basic universal human norms or are the
interactions between humans soley cultural?
-Is morality based on universal human norms or is
morality cultural and societal?
-Do you believe in evil?
-If so, where does it come from?
-What will happen to you when you die?
…et cetera
If you wish to discuss this futher (I do) silvrio@yahoo.com is where you’ll find me.
Also, let me know what you thought of my logical critique of your God argument. I believe it is fatal, but perhaps you can elaborate in an illuminating way. Whatever you do, don’t just tell me I’m wrong, show me how, if I am. Thank you.
Joseph
I wonder what would happen if I started up a religion (it’s not that hard to do) where the core belief was that you made people, preferably strangers, blessed by punching them in the face? Or shouting doctrine at them in the street?
Be a decent human being, don’t try to force your beliefs on anyone … you simply don’t have the right.
I personally don’t see how mailing bibles or going on mission trips to developing countries is disgusting. It’s just Christians trying to share their beliefs. Now, granted, there are groups who try to shove religion down peoples’ throats. But simply showing them a bible or telling them who Jesus is is definitely not brainwashing or deadening of the brain. (Yes I am a Christian.)
Oh, it’s quite disgusting. These people need food not bibles. I’ve seen charity donation prices. It’s quite literally $40 for a cow, and about $30 for a bible. I really wonder what they need more.
These people go to developing nations and attempt to teach these people abstinence. Very few of them have birth control as part of their action plan…
You want to see figures of population growth in the region? It’s quite shocking…
I really wonder what it would be like if maybe 30-40 years ago they were actually given contraception and taught how to use it.
Moreover, instead of real education, they are getting taught fantasy stories, which they will never need, and it god does not help in fighting poverty. How about teaching them a profession so they can earn money for their (grotesquely large) family, which they have to care for sometimes from the age of 10, or less… Or at least teach them how to get water/grow vegetables/breed animals… basics of life.
“Morality” is really an afterthought in this situation…
Us Christians are only looking out for you, we want you to been happy and free some sin. Thats why Jesus died on the cross for you. Im telling you, i just turned a christian a few months ago and my life has never been better! http://www.bible.com go and have a read of a few things and ponder on it. If you have any questions just reply and ill help and pray for you.
Yours in Christ,
dear mo lucky instead of prayin for me , could i please have a lincoln continental? I’ve always wanted one of those!
if i lived in texas in the town of corpus christi
would that mean i was a parasite feasting off of the flesh of our lord god jesus christ amen?
I’m sorry about those last two posts ……..
I just have so much trouble trying to be serious in the presence of so many of the lord jesus christ our lord amen idiot followers I mean if you admit you believe all that stuff you surely are among the weak and feeble minded which makes sense seeing thine are the children that the lord god jesus christ our lord god amen likes to call his flock amen.
Curfew do you belive in God?
Yo Joseph !!
You still got that technicolor dreamcoat ?
Man that was the funkiest creation this side of eden!, dude you are cool ! but seriously jo , I ‘d ditch the flaky religous trip that is soo unhip to wha’s happenin in the real world dude!
Hey Mo lucky , you’re yanking my chain right?
Religion is supposed to be a base of morality. People aren’t supposed to go around saying “my god is better” to others and spreading it around like they think that they know better. People are supposed to respect other people’s beliefs and not insult it by trying to convert them with random crap. Oh, and i DO remmeber that some catholics said that distributing bibles around to other non-christians is something deemed to be wrong in some reason.
I don’t see that many other religions trying to do MASS CONVERSION to others. This is because they actually still understand the meaning of respect. It is not the religion that causes the problem in the first place. It is the arrogance of the people in the religion that causes these kind of shit to happen. Religion did not teach us to start wars, kill, rape, rob, steal and be disrespectful. It is our own doing. I have no intentions to offend any christians out there but, please have some respect for others before trying to distribute bibles/qurans/scriptures/etc and spreading the word about your own beliefs without actually understanding the fact that you are actually offending others with their own beliefs.
Grow up idiot why don’t you look at your own faults first before (yes that’s right) judging others. Why does everyone persecute Christians they have done more good than any other religious group put together. Again grow up and get a life.
Spiro, this is the problem with you. You are just another one of those “my religion is better than yours” kind of person. Have you ever learnt respect from your religion? From what i see, the main post is directed to the people who are not fully following the original teachings and disrespecting others. Although i do feel that the title of this post is very offending especially when people misinterpret it before actually understanding the entire post.
yea spiro Nifer is right you are a godbotherer with a bad attitude lighten up spiro cause there’s no god and there’s no way outa here cept feet first buddy
and remember the lord god jesus christ our lord amen was nothin more than a charlatan a quack a snake oil salesman a con artist a shyster not someone you would trust with your lunch money, you dig?
It is incomprehensable that in this day and age people can still beleive that there are devine powers and evil dwellers beneath the undergrowth. For a start it has been proven that the devil was made up to scaremonger non beleivers to join the church. Christianity is full of lies.
I dont mind religion. If people cant find their own guidance in life then fair enough follow someone elses rules. I do think that christianity has gone way too far though.
If you try to put yourself in the mindset of someone at the start of the first century, with no concept of technology or science. Then imagine seeing David Blaine performing any of his tricks or endurance feats. You would quite understandably think it was unnatural and inexplicable. I dont blame them for beleiving jesus when he told them he was son of god!
and would you realy be suprised if you found yourself talking to inanimate or illiterate beings having walked throught the desert without food or water for more than a couple of days?
You also have to remember that there was a different attitude to psychoactives. If you look at tribal people who still use them nowadays they come up with incredibly far fetched scenarios and their people beleive them and act on every word they say. There is no problem with this in a world where you are not aware of the science behind natural processes. It must be scary when some things “just happen” and you have no concept of why. So Im not attacking early christians.
Have your religion but dont take it too far. Strip it back to what it used to be before they started scaremongering and demonising other religions. I dont think that most christians realise that modern christianity is a far cry from what it was.
Through a pure act of evil the church demonised and frightened its way into power. IT HAS BECOME A DICTATORSHIP!
Before you attack me please think over this carefully.
What i have seen in this day and age, it isnt the “Stinking Christians” as you say, it is the muslems (sp), I get it every day when i hear that annoying as hell call to worship over the loud speakers, (even they are in violation of some city codes because it is a religious institution they are let off the hook) ( the funny thing is, last year when the church down the road violated some codes the city steped in as-fast-as-an-arrow)
In california they teach the quaran (sp) as part of the religion class, Roman Catholosisum (sp) wasnt included neither was Christainity, parents didnt like this, they took the school to court, they lost. The parents were viewed as narrow-minded conservitives, ALL THEY WANTED WAS FOR OTHER RELIGIONS TO BE REPRESENTED.
I don’t see Christians shoving anything down anyones mouth, but i see the Muslims (sp?) doing it everyday.
I highly doubt you have people approaching you in the street trying to convert you to Christianity. It’s more likely the case that you are searching for these websites in order to pick a fight, a rather stupid fight – and no one else is interested. At least where I come from, Christians tend to keep to themselves.
Who knows, maybe next you can write a post about how unfriendly Christians are.
“Why does everyone persecute Christians they have done more good than any other religious group put together.”
Spiro,
We’ll completely ignore all the people on this planet who have been tortured, beat, murdered, and stripped away from their families all in the name of God. Christians might do some good work, but overwhelmingly their bigotry does little to nothing more than cause hate and turmoil.
Do a bit more research into the real history of typical Christian behavior instead of responding with the same cookie-cutter, braindead response.
Blessings.
Spiro:”Why does everyone persecute Christians they have done more good than any other religious group put together.”
Yeah… crusades were a whole world of good. Oh, also, G.W Bush declared to the world that god told him to invade Iraq.
Obviously somewhere in your education you mixed up the words ‘crusade’ and ‘invade’ with, ‘marmalade’ and ‘elephant parade’.
Just for fun, let me disect the hypocracy of modern christianity through the 10 commandments.
1. “You shall not make for yourself any graven image”
well… dare I say christ on the crucifix is a graven image, as is the virgin mary.
2. “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain…”
although I allready said it, G.W saying that god told him to invade Iraq. Maybe not in vain if it were the SOLE reason, but alas, he had a whole array of reasons, and this was but one of many, empty reasons.
3.”Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy…”
I’ve got nothing here
4. “Honor your father and your mother…”
I’m sure this one is broken by many christian persons daily, as is common practice for humanity.
5. “You shall not murder.”
Sadly most people seem to think the words “unless you shout ‘FOR GOD’” are included in this commandment.
6. “You shall not commit adultery.”
G.W is basically screwing the whole world.
7. “You shall not steal.”
Preaching to people who live in third world countries, and enforcing missionaries upon them steals their freedom. Oh wait, that musn’t apply to them, they aren’t christian… ‘yet’.
8. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
Everyone lies these days. Hell, the church itself lies constantly.
9. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.”
this one is probably not so bad… but it does get undermined by priests having sex with children.
10. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house…”
Iraqi people aren’t your neighbours… they are like, AGES away, so it’s okay to comandeer their country and blow their shit up.
Imaging there’s no religion, it is easy if you try. No hell below, above us only sky…
Imagine all the people, living life peace…
Bush is a politician who is appealing to Christian Conservatives. Bush does not represent Christianity. Christianity is represented by the new testament and people who properly follow the teachings. Most people aren’t true Christians.
The ten commandments are outdated and were only intended for the Israelites. The only proper guide now is the example Christ set as Jesus.
Religion grows because weak-minded people need something to look forward to or cling on to so they can live better. Well, keep religion to yourselves and don’t spread your beliefs because if you teach them to the wrong person, it might be for the worst. (eg. telling a murderer that he can free his sin through religion; thus, if his mind is weak enough, he’ll go kill more people in the name of religion.) Of course thats why they need to go to the third world countries to spread their religion because they have hard lives, so they would easily convert.
No one really needs religion if they have strong morales. As you can see most of the world population are believers so, that means that they are weak and may act on the name of god to do some horrible things.
Finally, for those who say Christianity is pure and spreads peace think again, and go read your history of the world, and you may learn a lesson. If you can’t learn, i can’t help you, and you will be weak forever no matter who you are, and when fear strikes you hard, you’ll run to God scared. You won’t be saved by god, and you can only be saved by yourself.
First of all, you assume that all Christians are conservative republicans. That’s false; get out of here. I myself am a Christian, and I don’t give a shit about conservatism/left-wingism/etc. I just want the truth, and that’s that.
Second of all, you assume that all Christians like to slap people around with Bibles. Well, that’s also not true; get out of here. I will admit that MANY Christians get carried away with how they try to convert people, but not every Christian in the world acts like that. If you’re an atheist and I’m talkin’ to ya, I may have a small conversation as to why you’re an atheist and I’m a Christian, but I’m definitely NOT gonna force my beliefs upon you because they’re simply beliefs; an argument about who’s right and who’s wrong is going nowhere because neither can really prove anything
Third, you assume all Christians never think for themselves and simply act like helpless little shits who pray all day and never act. This is also not true. Of course, we pray to God in the hopes that solutions will happen out of God’s mercy. However, when we see that it’s up to us to take care of business, then, dammit, we do. Let’s take the example of the Holocaust. As we all know, millions upon millions of people were being executed. Well, a German Christian by the name of Dietrich Bonhoeffer was visiting America @ the time. He heard of the news of what was going on and returned to Germany despite his many friends’ opposition to stay in America. Bonhoeffer analyzed the situation, and decided that he should plot an assassination of Hitler since it would be ultimately best for the world. Unfortunately, he was caught and assassinated, but, hey, who the hell else was doing anything?
Finally, you assume that all Christians like to smack people all around the place with Bible verses all day and won’t let you be. This is also not the case. I’m currently taking an Old Testament Historical Books class @ my school (yes, @ a Christian school), and I learned that a lot of what’s in the OT isn’t even really “inspired by God”; some of it comes from “The Epic of Gilgamesh” and other popular Greek stories. To be honest, I don’t even read the Bible as much as many of my Chrisitan peers do because I don’t see the point (unless one must for an assignment or to help others find inspiriation or somethin’). If I read and understand a passage, why do I need to memorize it? Memorizing the whole Bible doesn’t make someone a good Christian; it’s actually practicing the GOOD things that it says, displaying the attributes the Bible states in Galatians 5:22 (whoops; there’s a Bible verse!)
In short, I agree with you that there are MANY MANY Christian assholes who are so full of themselves that they like to piss everyone off by trying to convince them that God is the way. While I believe God is the way and would like you all to believe the same, I’m not gonna punch you in the face with John 3:16 and kick you in the nuts with Acts 2:43-47. Instead, I’d just wanna kick it, make a few friends, maybe influence others by example, give them the help and encouragement they need as friends. It’s not like a person becoming a Christian means that they’re the most pure, perfect beings or anything. There are Christians who do some pretty crappy & sick shit (like George Bush, but I digress), so, we must all respect each other as long as things are kept in a good order. If you’re not killing 23 innocent people a year in your basement, you’re good in my book. In the end, we must all ban together, respect each other’s opinions, and help make the world a better place. There are some good hearted people in the world who aren’t even religious, let alone Christian, so, let’s all try to be pious people and live for the greater good, whatever you may believe it to be, eh?
To me as a Christian and the purpose of being a Christian is to preach about how awesome our God is. And that is all. NOT to “push” our beliefs in you but rather preach about His awesomeness. I don’t mind if you actually believe me, because that’s when you and God have to work things out. I’m not going to bombard you with all the information, because there’s too much and because you have, I believe, heard enough of already. (Judging by all the previous comments on your previous post.) But it all boils down to you in wether you accept Him or not.
I have respect for your decisions and I do not wish to criticize it – like we all should. I have friends whom are not Christian but they have respect for me when I say something about Christ. Likewise, when they say something about their religion, I just sit and listen. I recently invited them to a conference about God in January next year, though most of them hesitated (I did not force them accept my invitation) but in the end, most of the decided they would come along and give it a try. =) That alone, God will work within them and I believe He will reveal Himself to them when the time is right.
That is all I have to say. Thanks for listening. =)
“I just turned a christian a few months ago and my life has never been better!”
Every Atheïst will probably agree with me when I say:”Those are the worse…”
Jesus recognized the people you are talking about. Get a copy of esword (http://www.e-sword.net/) and do a search of the new Testament for “Pharisee.”
Actually you can see it in action right in the name of that electronic Bible. The “good news” of the “Prince of Peace” is now a sword.
Go figure.
Have a great day!
Why is it always that the people without bliefs make these stupid posts.
It is never about christians talking about themselves. However, Christians realize the fact and know it’s there.
Every religion is the same and everybody preaches so your post is old news.
I am sick of posts such as yours as much as I am sick of different people talking trash on other person’s religion or in your eyes just as much as “when those stinking bible-bashers can’t help but push their beliefs on to me.”
There are christians that give a damn about other persons religion and there are those who do care and will try to convince them.
And you think athiest are perfect too? There are ones that drop the subject (i suggest thats what you do) or the ones that talk smack on other persons religion and prove (in a way – its not 100% true) that god doesn’t exist and its all crap.
gdamn
I so agree! While the Christians seem to rule this country and have this need to grow tentacles around the world…..I would say that the evil is the organization behind the beliefs.
While I do not subscribe to any belief in God, if people need that feel okay with death and fear I am happy for them. But the pushing and infringing and inflicting and hypocrisy is disgusting
All Evangelical Christians are conservative Republicans? Somemone must have forgotten to send that memo to me and my wife and many of our friends who are independents and Democrats. I voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry 2004, and I have no qualms to share my faith with people. If you don’t want to hear it, just say “get lost” and keep on trucking. Living in a country where there is freedom of speech and religion means that you are going to hear messages that you don’t agree with.
And yes, I am going to continue sharing my faith, not to spite you, but because I believe that it is true and because Jesus commands us in the Gospels to do so.
Here is the bottom line, if someone came up with the cure for Cancer, undoubtedly you would not that person to share his findings with the entire world. I am sure that you would think that it would be criminal not to. Likewise, we Christians believe that we have found the solution for sin and the way to God. We really believe that this is true, so it would be wrong for us to keep this news to ourselves.
Look at the world around you… it’s sooooo beautiful! That’s your proof that god exists!
^
That has got to be the most overused and retarded argument used by evangelicals to win over those with doubts – i.e. the sheep who went astray.
It all falls on the issue of impetus. Is there impetus to believe and if there isn’t, is there a prerogative for all individuals to assess their pysche and come up with the philosophy that defines the way they live?
A person who puts a premium on autonomy and accountability wouldn’t go around ‘evangelizing’ other people – may they be atheist or not.
We have very similar views against the christian establishment. Im looking forward to having correspondence with you.
Hmmm, interesting debate going on. I was a “christian” for about 6 years and all I had was it shoved and I mean shoved down my throat. I was only allowed to listen to christian music, read christian materials and “had” to attend church sunday morning, and night and wednesday and saturday. I wasn’t allowed to have any friends who weren’t christian and got in big trouble if I got caught listening to anything not christian. With t.v. it was only programs allowed by my parents and the same with video games and books. Now I’m not saying it’s not bad that they monitored it but to the point where I felt trapped in my own room was a big problem to me. I am now 23 happily married and am wiccan. Now that doesn’t mean that I practice spells or things like that, although if you would like to talk to me my e-mail is: ligerelephant@msn.com. I don’t care much for christianity after watching several history shows that show that every new emperor or king took what he didn’t like out of the bible. Now that would suggest to me that the bible is majorly imcomplete. Then we have the mormons who say they have another text from jesus about his life and whos to say they don’t or it isn’t real? Were any of us around when jesus lived? One thing does get me amused though is that they show jesus as being white when the area he is supposed to be born in is definitely not white or cuacasian. Also look at what Criss Angel “Mind Freak” is able to do, he can do almost anything David Blane can and to a much greater degree. Now whose to say that jesus didn’t just tap into some other part of our brain which we only use ten percent of, and be able to do things like david blane or the prophets be able to do anything like david blane or criss angel. Then that brings up John Edwards the guy who was able to communicate with the other side and the Pet Pyscic, ever wonder about them think there just conning folks or that it’s all been prearranged? Let me know at: ligerelephant@msn.com.
once again people in 3rd world countries need food,not false ideals.
i just want to say….people in 3rd world countries need food,not false ideals.
I’m a non-christian, but have been going to my friends cellgroup for quite a while. Even though I never attend church services, but I do mix around with the other church members through other activities. There are quite a number of churches in my area, but no, not everyone comes and tries to shove a bible down my throat. BUT there are those peculiar few, or after recounting…quite a number who actually try to convert you from whatever you were before, into what they so-called “Christians”. They approach you at the roadside, cafe and even when I was eating at McDs. They preached to me like no tomorrow, tried to get my number and house address and whatnot to follow up on me. They hand me papers saying that their religion is the ONLY one for me. Yeah, even my christian friends say that isnt the way to do things. If you were a true christian, you’d be living your life like one and get people to notice you through your daily lifestyle, not *ahem* telling them directly that we’ll all go to hell if we dont accept Christ. Yeah, there’s also another thing. If you are a christian, isnt flaming people wrong? Arent you not supposed to do evil? I’m a free thinker (whatever that’s supposed to be) and I respect all religions, be it Islam, Buddhism, Taoism or Christianity. But here’s the strange part I was wondering about…..each religion says that If we’re not in their religion, we go down to hell…but we cant be in more than 1 religion. So does that mean that we ALL go to hell?
lets all take advantage of the fact this country is turning into babylon and will soon fall after that. this country founded on god hates god this country that claims to know god knows nothing at all!
heh…i can’t believe i jus read all these posts. >_
Satan’s deceiving the nations…That’s his job he’s doing it well, judging by most of these posts here. Your father, the lier and the destroyer has a surprise for you in the end. May God have mercy on your souls.
sorry, my comment got cut do to a formating error:
heh…i can’t believe i jus read all these posts.
my eyes hurt now. @_@;
Religion is a scary topic…not for the judgmental persona it gives others (willingly or not)…but b/c it turns ppl on others.
(I’m not making a this side is right/this side is wrong comment, i’m staying neutral on this on. lol)
How long do you think it would take the majority of the worlds citizens to realize that “Putting our differences aside” also includes religion in more aspects then one. and so and so…
anyways, try not to turn this into a flame war, right guys?
Hi JB,
I understand exactly where you are coming from with your post. There are many immature Christians out there who don’t know what true Christianity is all about. I read some of the comments people made on your previous post, and can understand why you feel the way you do.
I will say, though, that all Christians are not the same–just like all Muslims, Atheists, Men, Women, etc. are the same.
Hopefully one day you may run into the real deal.
Kindest regards,
-j
I must admit, Im glad I stumbled upon this, its hillarious!
Remember, there is difference between prolythizing and explaining it. One tries to convert you; the other isn’t. I got friends and aquantances on both sides of the Christian debate. I really don’t care because I ain’t returning to any Ibrahimic religion ever.
Gun’s don’t kill people; people kill people. Religion is much the same. Blaming an idea is pointless and generalizing all Christians as subscribing to the same idea is like saying that all 14-year old boys think and act alike. They do not.
How we love to pigeon-hole each other.
I wass directing my comment to the idiot that wrote the article and who said anything about me being a Christian I don’t like poeple who condenm someone else’s religion like poeple do here. If a muslim lady wants to cover her face then let her, don’t abuse her for it and condenm her beliefs. As for the crusades get to know your history before you make a comment. Again idot get a life instead of condenming someones religion.
I was directing my comment to the idiot that wrote the article and who said anything about me being a Christian I don’t like poeple who condenm someone else’s religion like poeple do here. If a muslim lady wants to cover her face then let her, don’t abuse her for it and condenm her beliefs. As for the crusades get to know your history before you make a comment. Again idot get a life instead of condenming someones religion.
I hate to say it but this seems a slight double standard. When a Christian teaches to encourage the decision to turn away from sin you teach (no less bigiotedly) for people to turn away from Christianity because it is what you think they should do. It is disrespectful and hateful attitudes (on both sides) that makes any real conversation possible. So now what we have are two sides yelling at each other totally convince the other is wrong. It isn’t going to get us anywhere.
I agree, sometimes Christians can be pretty lame. Unfortunately, these vocal minorities are the ones who get the attention.
But what’s the difference between these sites you’ve linked to and this page? You both seem to be trying to promote your worldview. You probably searched for them, so if you want to blame somebody for “shoving religeon down your throat”, YOU are the most likely candidate. I think it’s kinda lame that everyone who hates Christianity shouts “Tolerance! except to Christians of course”. Tolerate murder and immorality (if you even believe in such a thing) but we can’t handle a difference of opinion? Christianity gets removed from schools, yet the only gripe against Islam is that “we need to understand them.” Does this mean that telling people what you honestly believe is worse than killing people in the name of Allah?
Although, if you look at it this way, it’s a pretty convincing argument for the existence of a divine good and evil. If there’s a devil, he’s sure as heck gonna find any little thing against Christians that he can use against them. Like this blog…
First of all, cheers to Justin.
Secondly, everyone else shut up.
You’re all pigeonholing eachother and generalizing just to be antagonistic.
The ideals of Chrisitanity are pretty universal when you boil them down to the bones. And here’s my question and request. Everyone who is a Christian, what are the things you find most important about your beliefs. Everyone who is not a Christian, what do you believe in (Atheism is a belief, it’s just as hard to prove the non-existence of God as it is to prove the existence of one) and what ideals do you hold to be the most important in your life?
What I want to get at here is that I doubt any of you actually know what it is you believe and can articulate it clearly (Christians and non-Christians both). If you can, please do so , so that we can deal with eachother specifically rather than generalizing and becoming as bigitous as Jesterballz.
[...] Even since I read a post over at Wandering Apricot about Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion I’ve been thinking a lot about both religion’s (and religious organizations’) role in society and the role religious beliefs must play in understanding the mind. Apparently, for some reason, this is on the minds of other WordPress bloggers as well (including some pretty fierce debate over at this blog about evangelism and even the possibility of the existence of a God). Recently, I mentioned an article by Paul Bloom about a cognitive/evolutionary basis for religious and superstitious belief. It’s a good, easy read that will probably be interesting to anyone that cares to read it, given that having an opinion on religion is hard to escape. What follows was originally conceived as a response to Apricot’s comment, but it was getting long enough to warrant it’s own post, so here it is: [...]
Worship Satan No Longer?
Welcome Atheist !
I’ll be linking here. Glad to have found your blog.
“Christianity is the strangest religion ever set up, for it committed a murder upon Jesus in order to redeem mankind from the sin of eating an apple.”
-Thomas Paine
I’d have to say my consensus lies mainly with Nifer, though I can see where Mr. Awesome is coming from. People who are Christian aren’t necessarily trumped-up, overaggresive morons with no thinking bone in their bodies. The vast majority of them don’t attempt to force their beliefs on other people (I have friends that are Christian, they’ve never tried to convert me or even ask my religion).
Simply because we find a belief or faith illogical does not give us perogative to generalize any faith into a mocked-up travesty of its original intent.
Though, one could argue that the Church has already done that.
You can’t say that we are all like that. There are bigots in all religions.
I am looking forward to the day when the Lord returns
But until then there will always be problems with religion.
Good old Paine. And if you think that only weak-minded people believe in Christianity, try reading anything by C.S. Lewis.
“The ideals of Chrisitanity are pretty universal when you boil them down to the bones. And here’s my question and request. Everyone who is a Christian, what are the things you find most important about your beliefs.”
I agree with that, Joseph, and that has a lot to do with my answer to the second bit there. I’m a Christian (i.e., a follower of Christ) because I believe that the way Christ taught is a better way to live. I believe it’s better to care about people, rather than burn with the pain that comes from coveting others’ possesions, talents, influence, etc. I believe that there is a higher call and order to the universe than simple random chance, and I believe that that’s what Jesus’ teachings are about.
And really, why is faith any more illogical than scientific “proof”? You could just as easily say “Well, since light isn’t a ‘real’ tangible thing, I can’t trust anything my eyes tell me.” I’ve heard a little bit about quantum physics, and man, those guys believe in some crazy stuff! But they’re just cool that way. You might say that they believe that because they can test and probe and smash tiny particles into other tiny particles. That’s true, but there’s so much that confirms faith. There’s the old, way overused argument of “Where did everything come from?” There has to be something or Someone who made all this. It’s kind of silly to say that you only believe in scientific reasoning and empirical knowledge and at the same time claim that matter and energy can just appear from nowhere. There’s connections between individuals that is hard to explain outside the realm of the spiritual. So don’t knock it, it works…
oh and yes, cheers to you as well, Joseph.
you know, I agree with jpcatterson too. A lot of the atheists I’ve met are what Douglas Adams would call evangelical… ok, I’ll stop flooding the comments.
[...] Hey guys just thought I’d point a debate going on in the blog Gotta Hate Those Stinking Christian… Seems to me they’re going around in circle now, but if you want to leave your own opinion feel free. Mainly I suggest we just pray for them as the debate thier having really seems to be going nowhere. [...]
[...] from… http://cynicpad.wordpress.com/2006/10/31/gotta-hate-those-stinking-christian/ [...]
i notice nobody has been inspired to post an answer to the “what do you believe?” question. i wonder why that is?
it is a very good one, indeed. all constructive discussions should ultimately resolve on common ground.
I used to be a Pentecostal Christian. Speaking toungues, laying on of hands, believing demons and angels to be everywhere, feeling Satan himself to be the sole cause of my raging teenage hormones…
I was a bible literalist because that’s what i was taught to believe.
I don’t believe that way anymore. But what do I believe?
well, hmmmm…
I believe that the whole of the cosmos is in itself intelligent, tho i would say that our human idea of intelligence wouldn’t even begin to apply.
I believe the cosmos to be concious. Again, human comprehension of conciousness would not be able to
apprehend what sort of conciousness this would be.
all living things are a part of this cosmos, thus are also intelligent and aware, albeit at different levels that are often unappreciable to living things of different species. (hell, even different countries for that matter! and beliefs! lol)
the cosmos experiences itself subjectively through the conciousness’ of the living things that are a part of it.
thus, all concious things are of equal weight in the “grand scheme of things” and ultimately are part of the same conciousness.
the universe is a singularity, but there are six billion other individual “singular” universes on this planet alone, each contained within and a part of the whole. no man is an island, but each mind is a universe.
because all concious beings are part of the same whole, to hurt or damage another concious thing is to ultimately hurt yourself.
this unfotuneatly cannot be avoided and that sucks. concious beings should strive to minimize the damage whenever possible.
it is illogical and amoral to do otherwise.
lot’s of beings, for reasons unknown, insist on being illogical and immoral. i suspect it’s because total singularity of conciousness is tantamount to insanity.
all religions start with someone trying to remind everyone else of the core nature of existence. then that person dies and illogical, amoral, insane salespeole step up for their own selfish gain.
Perhaps, it could be said, ultimately i believe in everything.
good job ‘jesterballz’ isn’t bashing us with his beliefs… that’d be ironic wouldn’t it!
I like thought. Its really true. And notice how they just appear out of nowhere. I go to a Catholic High School and I’m not Catholic but sort of agnostic I guess. Maybe pagan, but still, the way they always preach about God, they made All Saints Day seem like their holiday. its not! and I couldn’t even say anthing about that. That was Crappy!
you could have said something. I was quite the pain in the ass when i attende a christian high school! at the cost of being a weirdo loner, of course… lol
Damn, I just read a bunch of posts, and I can only start this with the fact that I’m agnostic and I believe most main religions are simply cults that progressed much too far, whether it be buddhism, christianity, mormonism, whatever. When it comes down to it, they all have the same ritualistic shit with beliefs that different cultures created (with different gods or explanations, but different due to specific cultures), and only a few ever managed to become accepted by the majority of our population.
Dealing with the main(?) topic of the post here, of course I don’t give a damn about people converting to my “religion,” I’m freakin agnostic, but I understand and have experienced multiple times the sort of in-your-face converting that we’re talking about, and if atheists like this guy can just understand that these religions were, in their primal stages, cult-based, the converting aspect had to become necessary to further the religion. Then again, maybe he does understand that and this is a completely “I’m-pissed-off” basis so I’m gonna bitch, which I can understand too. I agree that, although religions like christianity, mormonism, and buddhism (yes, buddhism) may shell out constant indoctrination that say GO YE FORTH AND CONVERT (so it’s not really a choice for believers, it’s sort of an order), I really can’t help but think “Please leave me the hell alone.” To those who like to go door to door or whatever, especially for the major religions, if I wanted to find out about christianity or Islam (which I already know a lot about), I could do it in a fucking second, I don’t need a book handed to me or preached directly. My point is this: Every individual should be responsible for learning about as many religions as they can to begin with, so Muslims or Buddhists who don’t know shit about other religions should be held responsible for learning other religions, and THEN deciding. Noone should ever decide on something so important by their fucking parents or relatives. to quote Chris Rock “Be a fucking person, LISTEN, let it swirl around your head, and THEN form your opinion”
Hey Guys and Gals,
There aint no God, never has been, never will be.
Religion is a crutch for those who can’t go it alone,and the reason for most of the strife that has befallen us in the last two thousand years.
To all those Muslims, Baptists, Salvationists, Catholics, Lutherans, Hindu’s, Buddhists, Shintoists
Protestants, Jews, Methodists, Episcopalians,Latter Day Saints, Exclusive Brethren,Evangelists,Et Al, out there, religion is the greatest con trick of all time. Get a life!
Magnarc.
But isn’t it interesting that no one objects to living like Jesus – it’s just that somehow people got ballyhooed into following something other than Jesus and calling it Christianity. That may be the “greatest con trick of all time.” Ever see Jesus push himself on someone? Insult someone of another faith? Incite war? Bash others? Nope – his arguments are only with self-righteous religious people – just like Cynic’s position! Apparently, Jesus doesn’t believe in the religion Cynic doesn’t believe in, either!
Yes.
You’re right.
What hurts is the fact that it’s not how it’s supposed to be. What “christians” are communicating isn’t being communicated the way it was intended, and so often, it’s what shapes the perception of all Christians.
Christianity has been given a bad name. And it’s been twisted and shaped into what men have made it.
I’d like to perhaps clarify my thoughts better for you, and try and explain it all…
Have you ever read Donald Miller? His writings can so much more adequately convey my meanings.
Anyway, all I really want to say is that I’m sorry that this is how you view Christians. A lot of times it’s very true, and it shouldn’t be. Please don’t let it completely affect your opinion.
The problem with Christianity is that it places near-impossible standards on humans and tells them to deny their every instinct. I honestly believe that Christianity has some good qualities such as helping the poor and the sick and promoting peace and love. The problem is, Christianity is almost never interpreted that way in real life. The problem with Christianity is that no one (well, almost no one) follows the teachings of Christ.
Another inherent problem with modern Christianity is that there is a mandate of blind obedience. This blind “faith”, meaning without doubt, creates an environment of under- and mis-educated people who have no idea what they really believe in. They simply cling to what has been hammered into their heads.
There are, as always, exceptions, but I find that the majority of Christians would not be able to explain their comprehensive beliefs in depth, unlike people who have converted to or found other religions (like myself). Christians also tend to be less willing to admit to ignorance, which is another unfortunate flaw.
And I agree with the lack of overall respect throughout Christian practice, especially regarding evangelism. You might be trying to save our souls, but in the process you’re assuming we’re not smart enough to make our own decisions and are killing general “goodwill toward Men.”
As always, there are exceptions, but I find that more often than not, non-Christians tend to be more “christian” than those who loudly proclaim that only they are.
P.S. Good discussion going on here. A surprising lack of degeneration into insults. Well done, WordPress readers!
Wow! Lot’s of stuff in here about religion – or the lack thereof. While reading all the posts that talk about what we should or shouldn’t believe, about why Christianity is good and believable or not, I’ve yet to read about anyone who has actually said they’ve read the Bible, or the Koran, or the Book of Mormon, or any of the writings on any of the religions mentioned herein.
So what’s up with that. Is it OK to – let’s use the New York Times for argument’s sake – condemn what they print simply because we’ve “heard” that what they print is garbage – if we have never read the paper? Apply this same argument to Time Magazine, or Oprah, and on and on…
The logical answer (at least for most people who are in fact logical thinkers) is that NO, you cannot reach a clear and ultimate conclusion about something you’ve done zero, zilch, nada research or homework about. I will confess, in case anyone cares, that I am an evangelical Christian. I have to also confess, with much chagrin, that even though I have a very good command of the Bible and have read quite a bit of many other religious texts, I have yet to claim to have read any of them cover-to-cover.
Therefore, I do not believe in sharing my belief with anyone who doesn’t want to hear about it. I try to the best of my ability to live a happy, good, decent life – by just about any standard – but let’s just say in America, where we pride ourselves in being hard-working, mind-my-own-business types who love God and country. I suppose if someone sees something about how I live that they’re interested in and ask me to what I owe my happy life I will gladly tell them that I do have a relationship with a true and living God, not some iconoclastic, imaginary, man-made God.
This may be offensive to many, but I won’t apologize because I have just as much right in my country to believe what I believe as does the Agnostic, Atheist, Budhist, Muslim, etc…, whom I all respect – even though I disagree with them.
Besides, what is so wrong about living life the way it says in the Bible? I am not talking about the religious portions of it – leaving that out, let’s just pose a simple question: Is it so wrong to live by the 10 Commandments or by the Golden Rule?
I don’t know about anyone else, but when this country lived in the so-called naivete of the 1950s, where believing in God was still part of our culture – and someone PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong on this – but America seemed a much nicer place to live. Perhaps it could have been said it was a bit more boring than it is today, but we were a happier nation overall. So, someone please tell me, what was so bad about that?
oh yes, america was MUCH better for blacks and the other then minorities, women, gays and lesbians, and religions other than American Christianity in the 50’s.
ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?
Or do you only watch Nick at Nite?
gawd damn!
@ eirsinitiate
CC: “The problem with Christianity is that no one (well, almost no one) follows the teachings of Christ.”
Amen to that! Too often “Christians” forget that organized religion is what crucified Christ. Religion isn’t the same as a personal relationship with God.
CC: “[M]ore often than not, non-Christians tend to be more ‘christian’.”
Sound familiar? That’s Jesus’ point in the Good Samaritan parable. Talking the talk and walking the walk are two different things. The world definitely needs to see more Christians live as Christ would have them live.
That was rude bliss, and since you believe we are all connected, your hate towards emcompnut has now permiated…well…you. I think he did a wonderful job at answering the question. No one called you a nut job for being one with the rocks, so ease up. you know exactly what he meant. Dont try to turn it into something its not. And be careful, you want every one to be one in the universe…as long as they aren’t Christian. And Christians are the hypocrits?
I very rarely leave comments, however let me make one statement. When your life in this world ends, that’s one time that you DO NOT want to be wrong. The truth is that you will leave this world one day, be it in 40 years or 40 minutes, and you will be held accountable for the decisions that you made in this life. If you reject jesus Christ, you will have to answer for it. Eternity is only a heartbeat away and it lasts forever, so think about it.
um.. no hatred intended at all. you really read ALOT into that.
Sarcasm, yes, hate no. it is sometimes hard to get one’s tone right in text.
It’s just that it was legal and justified to own people as property for a really long time. then those same people were terrorized and killed one they were no longer property, for a really long time.
it was illegal for blacks to drink out of the same water fountains as whites in the 1950’s. Japanese american were intered in camps as a result of white christian xenophopia in the 1940’s.
television couldn’t even depict a married couple in the same bed back then.
there was a communist/atheist witch hunt throughout american society. people’s lives were destroyed.
i thought all this was a matter of public record?
my apologies if anyone thinks i was hateful. I just very strongly feel that, despite it’s flaws, american culture and society has come along way for ALOT of people since the black and white 1950’s.
You make it sound like white and Christian are synonomous. I am mexican, does that mean I can’t be a Christian? Or none of those women /blacks /japanese /women were Christian? Be careful with what you blanket travesty. You ever check history for how the Christians have been persicuted? Are you aware of what Saul did to them? These are people that caused these things, not the man named Jesus. People are screwed up(BTW I am a “people”) thats why the world needed a savior.
a2jbigdaddy:
“thats why the world needed a savior.”
That comment reveals so much about religion. People NEED to believe in some higher power to give them moral purpose and an excuse to wage war on the infidels with different coloured skin.
Religion is so consistently convenient across the whole of human history. Each religion follows a basic pattern. ie God didn’t make Man, Man made God. Religion is the ultimate tool of social control, and the most depressing thing is that people don’t mind that they are being controlled. They willingly submit to it.
Now they don’t have to think why homosexuality might be wrong…it just is because some bloke wrote it in a book a couple of centuries ago. Tres convenient.
you are still reading way too much into my comment.
i was asked by another poster to “correct me if i’m wrong”, so i posted a difference of opinion as to how “wonderful” the 1950’s were. i have one so i posted about a very specific timeframe inamerican history
“white” and “christian” are of course not synonomous, but for all intents and purposes, 50’s america was ruled by white protestant “christians” who used their religion to justify abhorrent actions against people they saw as threats to their white “christian” hegemony. about as far from the golden rule as you can get.
as someone of mexican descent, you certainly must be aware of the violent racist discrimination your people faced in 1920’s and 1930’s america at the hands of white “chrsitian” men.
or for that matter the fate of mexico’s indigenous people’s at the hands of european “christian” catholic invaders in the 1500’s.
of course christians were and still are horibly persecuted for their beliefs in many places around the world and it is wrong.
people are persecuted for all sorts of things and it is always wrong, so long as the beliefs they are persecuted for hurt no one.
the precise tragedy of the fate of minorities in pre civil rights america is that many of them WERE christians, being persecuted by insane white people who shared the same faith. who in fact used scripture to justify the persecution.
think on that.
a2jbigdaddy,
BTW, i just re-read my post that you were responding to, and i never even used the word “christian”!
um, ok , i did. ooops. definately time to brush my teeth, say my prayers, and go to bed.
peace
It is quite interesting that the atheists posting their alarmist anti-christian commentary fail to realize that religion is a view of reality. By that understanding atheism is exactly the same thing. Relax.
I’m a born again Christian, and things like that make me angry. No one should force a faith on someone, weather it’s a Christian, Atheist, or Muslim. The Bible even tells Christians if someone is unreceptive to leave them.
there is nothing wrong with god or christians for that matter and why would ne 1 want to go to hell like ur going to! u would be better off becoming a christian its either believe in god or spend an eternity in hell its ur choice!!!
i completely disagree after reading the first few lines of your writing. i refuse to listen to anyone who starts out with “omg they push their religious beliefs on to me”
get over it. no christian has ever forced me to shut up and listen to them preach about anything; i’ve done it on my own accord. they might be everywhere, but there are a hell of a lot of christians and religious folk in the United States period, and if they want a television show to talk about it then that’s their right as an American citizen.
people always complain about religious beliefs being forced on to the common public, but what do these anti-Christian writings do any differently?
no one should try to change anyones opinions, or become hostile to any religious group because of their enthusiasm to do what they believe is helping people.
life is much too short to worry about who is right and wrong. i don’t read news on Iraq or immigrants because i don’t care, honestly.
the only inevitability is that we all die, and i’m going to enjoy myself until that happens.
you’re no better than any Christian, nor am I.
There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents. —Luke 15:7
“Putting the ‘Cyn’ back in Cynic” – says it all, doesn’t it? Don’t think I’ve never met a productive cynic.
Trust people to make a mess of things! lol! The Christian message is simple (too simple, it would seem)… (1) Love God/ respect nature/ the environment/ things you don’t understand/ science etc. (2) Love your neighbour as your love yourself / treat people the way you would like to be treated.
This is the message Christ came here for and wanted His Apostles to spread. The rest of it is mere qualification and theology to prove credentials (mainly to the Jews).
The 2 commandments supersede/ replace the older ones. Everything gets a fresh start and a clean slate — no more original sin inherited from Adam. Goodby vergeful and wrathful God.
Peter is the rock upon which He wanted His Church built — a PERSON not a building (not an actual rock). He wanted His message spread far and wide (not the opposite, where people come from far and wide to the message). Christ was tried for the blasphemy of wrecking the Temple. All His work was outdoors. Face it, He was AGAINST organised religion, buildings, commandments, books, rules, discrimination, segregation, sectarianism, exclusivity, secret sects, etc.
A REAL CHRISTIAN is one who follows Christ — behaves like Him, does what He says.
It beggars belief how things can get from that to US American TV evangelism!!!!
These “faiths” are NOT Christian, the whole lot are going to eternal damnation for getting it wrong. let’s face it — the majority of us will be going to hell; heaven is for the very few who qualify… and it is veyr hard to refuse to stand up for yourself, never to defend yourself, and to totally refuse to use violence — THAT IS WHAT CHRIST DID — in fact that is what Christian martyrs were known for — being thrown to the lions without fighting back — turning the other cheek.
Personally, I could not stand by and watch my loved ones suffer. I therefore have to accept that I can never be a Christian, and also that I am doomed to eternal damnation.
Ay there’s the rub.
Wow, Out of the gates you were doing great Dave, then your theology and interpretation of Christ’s message went WAY south. You do not grasp what Christ did. In one sentence you say that God is not “mad” any more and that there is no more “original” sin, but then you condemn your self to hell, some perception of Chirst. No where in Christ’s greatest commandment does he ever ask ust to love anything about the world or “respect nature/ the environment/ things you don’t understand/ science etc”. Not sure which version of the bible you got that from. Oh and blissamerica, I am very aware of what one race did to another race a long time ago…but guess what? I dont care! They did not do it to me, they are not doing it to me now, and they wont ever do it to me, so quiet feeding your guilt with my peoples sufferings, we are over it! We lost a fight fair and square, don’t ever think us mexicans were ever oppressed. They dont call us mexicants, were mexicans. Do you need some kind of special pardon from my people so you will shut up about the past! Why do you think my people survived (add blacks/Jews/every other peoples who have had suffering), its because we are strong and don’t cry too long about the past. I am soo tired of people always crying fowl, toughen up butter cup! And stop sucking off others missery to make some white protestant bashing case. How can they use scripture to back their actions when that scripture does not exist? You make relative statements about something you know about through others reports and flawed/biased views. Christ didn’t even make a sound, and they mutilated his flesh and took his life! He asked His Father in heaven to forgive those who hated him, but he surely did not whine about it.
Here’s my fool-proof, QA-tested procedure for dealing with highly evangelical fundies (Christian or otherwise, and although this example is tailored for Christians, you could easily adjust the verbiage to fit just about any need):
(1) Evangelical Fundamentalist approaches and begins sales pitch.
(2) Interrupt EF. Say “Go away,” “I’m not interested,” or something similar.
(3) If EF continues, extend arms forward to full length with palms facing outward. Open your eyes as wide as they will go. Scream: “The power of Christ compels you!” at least 3 x. EF should speedily depart.
(4) If EF does not flee, try this: “I fully respect your right to believe as you see fit. However, I am not interested in your beliefs and you cannot force me to be interested in your beliefs. Perhaps I will burn in hell forever. Now go away before I send you to jail for the night on harrassment charges.” (If in a tough inner city area, you might want to substitute this last with “before I cap your ass.”)
It’s as easy as that! Just don’t get carried away and actually cap anyone’s ass. I mean, come on. They mean well, or think they do, anyway.
Cheers!
a2jbigdaddy,
and then he said, “God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
assuming he really died, that is.
please don’t make any assumptions about my personal emotional reasons for studying the history of various beliefs to educate myself about the nature of humanity.
i don’t need to suck off others misery, i have plenty of my own, thank you very much!
it is a matter of hisitorical record that unscrupulous people use scripture to justify the evil they do. i used the word christian in quotes -”christian”- to denote these people.
i think it’s sad that christians end up killing other christians over racial, political, or religious differences. it still happens today. it is terrible and horribly ironic.
for example, if a primarily christian nation engages in civil war, christians inevitaly end up killing other christians. at times in history, there has been religious civil war. the protestant reformation was quite bloody at times.
in the middle east right now, shiite muslims are engaged in conflict with sunni muslims. it certainly is not limmited to christianity. i have singled out christianity in my posts because this is a thread about that religion.
in american history, the scriptures were twisted to support slavery and later on the KKK. basically, it was said that blacks were animals because they couldn’t read. (nobody ever tried to teach them of course)
as animals, they could be property. also, the old testement references to the isrealites taking slaves during the conquest of canaan was used to support slavery.
you never have responded to my initial point, which was merely that, for many people of both sexes and all races, the 1950’s in america was not a very rosy place to be. i feel that i have well supported my opinion.
all you’ve done is make wild speculalions about my motivations and beliefs, in my first post i never said anything about being “one with the rocks” for example. i thought “concious beings” was fairly concise and to the point. it means living things and rocks aren’t alive. i said that “living things should be good to each other, but usually aren’t. i think my theme has been fairly consistent.
my statements are not relative at all. they are about verifiable events that really occured and should be discussed.
but you don’t seem very interested in that.
i would welcome a point by point response, supported by verifiable facts, if you are going bother to engage me in discussion.
otherwise, good luck. i grow weary of this.
thank you blissamerica, for defining what you believe. It’s not quite as comprehensive as Christianity, but they’ve had 2000 years to formulate and we’re just getting started.
A friend and I had a conversation last night about what it is that separates us (as in everyone who is alive today) and our ancestors (whoever those ancestors are, white Europeans, Native Americans, Russians, Africans, Asians). It was a very interesting discussion about globalization and the information access we have. I’m convinced that these two things play a big part in why our beliefs need to be fundamentally different from prevalent beliefs in the past. Our entire world is changing in ways that will revolutionize (or already have) the way we believe.
Anyway, somethings that’s been on my mind, I will clarify at a later time. But for now, what I really want to say is:
Thanks, bliss for posting your beliefs. It seems like we have more in common that we might realize. I especially liked your last statement, “I believe in everything.” That has interesting ramifications, but I think I agree, If I understand you. Either way, thanks for the response to the ‘what do you believe question.’ Who’s next?
Joeseph,
thanks.
beliefs can be tough to draw defined lines around can’t they?
i supose the scant beliefs i posted would be my metaphysical beliefs. not sure i want to get into specifics cause i can smell the Napalm cooking just over the hill!
i suppose what i mean by “i believe in everything” could be sumed up
as “I belive that YOU believe its true”
beliefs hold the ultimate weight in the human mind, affecting that minds (universe?- see previous post) apprehension of both personal and shared reality.
beliefs can change very dramatically over the course of a person’s lifetime. each time a belief changes, that persons relationship to themself and the rest of the world change.
this is happening in every mind on earth continuously.
some beliefs are good, some bad, some harmless.
so i figure it is best to be flexible.
“nothing is true, everything is permitted”
hassan i sabbah
“by the fruit, ye shall know the tree”
jesus of nazareth
“pull the wool over your own eyes”
jr “bob” dobbs
I would also recommend everyone who has been posting here get a copy of of this weeks southpark, be they christian, agnostic, gnostic,
atheist, chaos magician, overman, whatever…
it should be mandatory viewing before posting on this thread… LOL
The only thing that deserves comment, is that you completely misrepresent the words of Christ. You use feeble english translation to understand what the Creator of the universe uttered before he concered death. It was the pain from your sin and the seperation of himself for which he called out. It is the same with everyone who has caused distruction in the name of Christ. It is man who is flawed, not Christ, God or scripture. I’m out.
a2jbigdaddy,
relax, fundamentally we agree. People are fucked.
i was just saying that fucked people use sometimes religion to do the dirty work.
that doesn’t constitute an attack on religion or your conception of God, does it?
also, i would like to know how quoting someone without comment constitutes “misrepresentation”.
i’m starting to feel the need to pray for YOU!
Maybe you’re not preaching atheism but you are pushing your belief that we shouldn’t preach the Gospel.
i would like to know your opinion on this:
the other day someone sneezed.. my instinct is to say “God bless you.” so.. naturally, i do. next thing i know, theres someone GROWLING at me.
my saying God bless you… is that preaching? .. or forcing my beliefes on someone? was the animal right to growl at me?
jus curious how you felt…
another thing:
i cant stand when someone forces their thoughts onto me as well. i can imagine how an atheist would feel if i started coming to them with all this God stuff, and sinning, and being saved. it would probably get annoying. but dont get me wrong… us christians get bothered too. its a 2 way street.
i was reading some other posts just now.. and i see a pattern.
everyone is complaining about christians that force their ideas.
in my personal opinion, and how i was raised in my christian faith… a TRUE christian wont judge another person. God is the only one to judge. anyone FORCING any ideas on people, or force-feeding the christian faith down someones throat, is a horrible example of how WE (fellow christians) should be.
those are the people that give us a bad name
so please, next time your talking about THOSE kinda christians, please state the fact that not all are like that. because we arent. there are mature ones out there, that only give people that WANT to hear it, religious advice… and thoughts, etc.
-amber… again :]
I think it’s amusing that the title of this post is “Gotta Hate Those Stinking Christian[s]…”. It is a blatant announcement that jesterballz is as hate-filled as any racist pig.
jesterballz isn’t screwed for life, however; Jesus excorcised my inner hate and replaced it with love, and I think Jesus would perform the same courtesy on jesterballz if he weren’t so obsessed with screaming his hatemongering to the rest of the world.
For the Crown Rights of Jesus Christ,
The Crown Rights Patriot
Amen to blissamerica about southpark!
Trey Parker and Matt Stone have an interesting way of hitting the nail on the head.
I am not preaching atheism! This is not a hypocritical post.-JB
You are a hypocrit. Sorry, Just had to state the obvious.
Why don’t I creat a post called “Gotta Hate those stinking Atheists” Then fill it with stuff convincing you that my way is better than yours. Instead of making a crapload of posts, why don’t you just go to a church, perferably on a sunday afternoon, and ask to speak to a pastor. Then you two can have an intelegent conversation with a person who knows what he is talking about. If all he tries to do is shove a bible down your throught then you got a kind of corupt person in the church, however if you get a normal one you and him can go grab some coffee, and talk like normal people, instead of making the same post on some internet site a million times.
Frank
I’de like to point out that this world is going to Hell in a handbasket quite literaly. I just want to know that I’m gona be on the gravy train for all of eternity. {I used 2 analogys in that one}
Runaway Train’ comment brings up an interesting questions in my mind. Runaway, do not think i am attacking your faith by referencing yr remark. i don’t know you and would not presume to know your faith, k?
with that out of the way…
how many people who attend christian religious worship are only there as a “hedge” to ensure they get to ride that “gravy train”? Their fear of hell is enough to motivate them to show up, but not enough to inspire them to actually live like the Jesus depicted in the bible?
this could certainly be expanded to include street ministry, evangelism, etc. People are preaching not because they are worried about MY soul, but rather THEIR OWN soul.
for instance, the Jehovah’s witness sect (who left another damn watchtower in my door this morning!) interpret the 144,000 in heavan described in Revelations literally. Only the 144,000 top eveagelists get to go. (at least that’s how one ex JW described it to me)
(please keep yr flame throwers holstered! i attended a variety of denominations over 20 years of my life. I have read the OT 4 4 times or so, the NT maybe two dozen, and re-read specific parts of the bible dozens of times. I have a studied opinion, so lets discuss rather than telling me i’m going to hell for attacking the church or whathaveyou!
Perhaps it is man’s twist on religion that turned it from morality, a good way to live by religion; to a sour, argument-provoking creed. A way of life. Black and white.
Turn to christ, or you do not. Accept totally and give your life to Jesus, or you fail.
Evangelicalism.
Does not matter if you live a good life (in way of acting, living for others, a good person) if you do not accept jesus – no matter if you just arent sure about it – you are not ‘holy’.
Also, as I said before I’m not sure about myself. But it irritates me when I come into contact with Christian people out of church; and they face others with unshakeable prejudice. A mask of sour distaste for those good people who have not ‘accepted jesus as the one lord, saviour and most holy one in their lives’.
Aside from this being bad to others, something that you should not be as a Christian; it’s just socially…’not nice’.
Evangelicalism. Way of accept my view, or suffer my eternal distaste. But even so, I get the feel of a closed community anyway.
I wish they would consider things from a more broad spectrum. The way we live just is not black and white anymore – do you say it should be? Perhaps the times have turned for worse, as we are more accepting of other things.
anyway, have to go!
What are you, my brothers and sisters, doing arguing here. It is not by our Lord Y’shua, or the Father or by the Spirit that some of you seek to disprove the unbelievers but by your own wickedness. We all have gone astray, every one of us, so let us not confuse the righteousness of our Lord with our pitifully dirty works. Until I received a vision, I was as any one of these unbelievers here, though perhaps I was even more adamant in condemning the Christian faith. Since the time of my rebirth I have found it intriguing to observe unbelievers in regards to religious people. Surprising to me, I have found that virtually all the same arguments, emotions, and doubts that I felt as an unbeliever are prevalent in almost every single unbeliever I observe. By far the most prominent idea is that faith is a response to the human condition of weakness and fear. I remember thinking how insightful I was in that day, that I had penetrated the psyche of men and uncovered their false religion. From experience I can tell you that an argument with an unbeliever will not end positively because you do not have the things of God in mind.
Also I must admonish you for your lack of knowledge, brothers and sisters, if indeed what the unbelievers say is true about your preaching and hypocrisy. You seek to reduce the power of God by turning unbelievers from their ways, when this job God has clearly left to himself. But you say because your pastors teach, “what about the great commission and carrying the message to all the world.” Indeed this is so but what message have we been instructed to preach. Y’shua (falsely known as -Jesus) said “I have not come but to the lost sheep of Israel”. Now the name Israel was given to a man of faith named Jacob, and represented faith at it’s inception more than a nation. Y’shua and his teachings are for those with faith, as also is the great commission. No apostle, nor our Savior himself, ever preached a message but to the lost sheep of Israel, or those who believed. It is not our concern, those outside the faith, unless we are more powerful than the Father, except that we show them love and treat them as we would like to be treated.
Today “Christian” means belief to most, yet even the demons believe. In the first century the word meant much more, it is a title bestowed only as a measure of faith, not simply belief, and that faith is unavoidably measured by works. Watch out that you are not deceived by false christ(ians)s. Now Y’shua told us to inspect the fruit, we do it at the grocery store so why are we blind elsewhere. Let us be ever vigilant, and watch for Elijahs return and the restoration of all things that if we persevere to the end we will be in paradise. In Y’shua’s words “forgive them for they know not what they do”
Jason,
Very interesting perspective. I get what you’re saying and I think Solomon articulated it as well:
“Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.”
If we’re using the Psalm 14:1 definition (”the fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’”)of fool then you’re absolutely right.
I don’t hate Christians at all… infact all my friends are Christians… i’m the oddball… BUT THOSE DAMNED JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES… wake me up on saturday mornings to give me a magazine… i go back to bed, THEN IT’S THOSE DAMNED WATCHTOWER-ers… “Dear Lord, all i want is some peaceful slumber, such that I may refrain from breaking your followers’ legs.”
Jehovah Witness’ are easy to get rid of, you merely have to say something like;
“Fine, I’ll take your magazine produced at your place of work or worship. I work at a Blood Bank, I think it only fair you accept some blood.”
I’ve found the best way to get rid of biblebashers at the front door is to answer the door in your birthday suit and ask em in for a cup of tea,this seems to spook them and they can’t get off the porch and out the front gate quick enough.
another handy hint neighbours!
Your words “Yes, I believe it is morally reprehensible to seek and convert people in developing countries. Obviously these people think they are doing the right thing. But they part of something bigger. A large-scale brainwashing is taking place, deadening the brains of all who are targeted, turning them all into conservative, hate filled Republicans.”
What exactly is morally reprehensible about Christians going to third world countries and preaching Christ died for their sins?
In what way is brainwashing involved?
Somethings that you’ve stated are very general and it’s hard not to jump to conclusions. Furthermore you seem to lump Christians and there many denominations into one pile of sweeping judgment.
linkbolt
Christianity is simple – 1 John 4:8 “God is love” and 1 John 4:20-21 “If anyone says, ‘I love God,’ but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.” How complicated is that? The only real test of a Christian is how well he or she lives out that teaching. For me, it all boils down to two things: Do I have a relationship with God and, if so, am I showing God’s love to others? As we know, actions speak so much louder than words. I can spout Bible verses all day, but if I don’t demonstrate God’s love, I am merely a “noisy gong” (1 Corinthians 13:1). Therefore, if you’re going to judge me as a Christian, judge me by my behavior, not by some label. Labels are cheap and can mean very little – you can’t argue, however, against a life that demonstrates love. Any time I do “evangelize”, it’s merely to tell people: “Hey, give God a try. I did and it changed my life.” People can say all they want about my beliefs, but they can’t tell me I haven’t been changed by God (just like I can’t tell them their life is a lie). From my perspective, the main reason I believe in God is because I have a personal relationship with Him – a relationship that took me from a depressed, suicidal teen to a totally different person who lives happily now. Again, NO ONE can tell me I dreamed this up. Now, it is my job to spread the love I have received – THAT’S IT.
WTG, O’Malley. You’ve touched the heart of it.
OK, I’M BORED, you either believe in god or you don’t. Life is full of people with different characteristics who don’t share the gospel or forcefully do, and there are always people with an annoying personality, i have to deal with some of my friends who aggravate me every day and annoy the crap out of me but I still have to respect them and live with them.YOU EITHER BELIEVE IN GOD OR YOU DONT, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT UP WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THE WORLD IS FULL OF THEM, SO IN FACT IT” NOT REALLY ABOUT RELIGIO AT ALL BUT YOUR SOCIAL SKILLS.
Waterfallcats: you sound like Jesus.
You mentioned Christians being brainwashed Republicans willing to do morally reprehensible things to convert people to their faith. Can you provide an example of these reprehensible things? And also, have you realized that there are many African American people who embrace Christianity and you’ll see statistically that they’re not Republican.
I think you have a problem with uptight, white conservatives, not Christians. That’s generalization. And that ain’t cool my man.
let’s get right down to it.can any of you christians prove god exists? no .agnosticism is a cop out.eg, can you prove fairies exist at the bottom of your garden?can you prove that they don’t?dawkins described it as “the poverty of agnosticism” and as an agnostic myself i admit i had to concede he had a point.it boils down to probability, and the simple fact is, is that it is highly improbable that god exists.to ignore or scorn atheism is intellectualy dishonest while following the central doctrine of the new testament borders on insanity. goethe stated that “there is nothing as terrible as ignorance in action”. there is: wilful ignorance.it abounds amongst christians and lends itself to insidious arrogance. i once felt pity for the brainwashed legion of christians; now all i feel is contempt.
Well, Vic, um …
“borders on insanity,” “wilful ignorance,” “insidious arrogance,” “brainwashed legions,” “all i feel is contempt.”
I’m with you, I don’t believe in scorning atheism or atheists. Or anybody.
But who’s doing the scorning here?
As to following the central doctrine of the New Testament, which I understand as loving God by loving others well, I think that’s an insanity we could use a little more of.
after skimming through much of the muck on here, I was not surprised in the least by most of it. other than the PLEASANT surprise of seeing some posts by a few Christians who are apparently walking their talk and vice versa. good for you guys! well since I am going to go to bed right now (with my adorable husband of almost 8 years) I just wanted to leave my 2 cents. I am a tattooed, Bible-reading, Jesus-loving, honest-to-a fault hardcore Christian chick who loves loud music of many types (and a skosh of soft pretty stuff), sings in a loud metal band, and is also a former roller derby skater. to all the clowns out there trying to pigeonhole Christianity, give it up! you are just as bad as the fingerpointing types from our side. God bless y’all…and if you ever think God is down on women, go read Proverbs 31. that is His blueprint for femininity. not barefoot pregnant young women in long skirts (although there is NOTHING wrong with them either)
w/ much love in my exhaustion from a long and fruitful workday…
d. (yawn)
Yeah, I find Christians truly annoying… generally. The make really good fodder for satire though, and are taught to feel good about being mocked, and they seem to love the drama of being ‘persecuted’. That is why I blog about them. It’s win win.
There are a lot of comments here. How on earth do you achieve that? I mean, what the?
I twisted gallery of lindsay lohan and i suspect we do best. I suspect that means. He returned to.
Christianity really shouldn’t be about all that the article says it is, though some fanatic groups try to convert developing countries into some kind of republican pseudo-Christian country. True Christianity is about being a follower of Jesus Christ and his teachings. I don’t think that has anything to do with being a democratic nation. It has everything to do with finding personal freedom from sins in Jesus Christ. As a Christian, I am forced to believe the words of Christ, my Lord and Savior, who said in John 14:6, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” My goal is not to dehumanize anyone or even deculturalize anyone. My goal is simply to help them understand that Christ is the only way to get to heaven and teach them biblical principles like Christ told his followers to in Matthew 28:19-20. It’s not a western political religion. It started in the Middle East, and it’s a message for the entire world. What kind of follower would I be if I didn’t do what my Master told me?
The above post may leave some of you to comment that my problem is that I am trusting a 2000 year old book that was written by a bunch of different men and that it really has to bearing on reality today. Then we’re getting into opinions. I believe those men who wrote it did so because God inspired them by his Holy Spirit. Plus, the Bible seems to make more sense to me than anything else. What else would we place our faith for existence in? Some unknown matter that exploded billions of years ago and made all this come about totally by chance? Well, we all have opinions.
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I hope this doesn’t get on your nerves, But. This is an important News Update, please read and pass it along. God has made contact. The message is about Revelation. The message is from God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost respectively. It was sent in the Spring of 2006. It is about the meaning of First is Last and Last is First as written in Revelation. The message is this: In the morning I go to Heaven. In the afternoon I live my life. In the evening I die, death. What does this mean? In other words this means Birth is Last and Last is Birth. To understand this don’t think from point A to point B. Think of this as a continous circle of life. Birth is First, Life, Death, Birth is Last, completing the circle. God also said that Judgment will be before Birth in Heaven. AS birth on Earth is painful so will birth in Heaven. It is possible that this message was delivered by one of God’s Angels in the Spring of 2006. Yes, God has made contact and he sent a messenger. Spread this message along, just like a chain letter. Tell two people. Melanie Stephan
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I have been reading some of the blogs on here about how badly Christians are hated. I am very sorry that so many of you feel that way, but I can honestly understand. So many people who call themselves Christians have forgotten what Christ really wanted from us ~ to love one another. Compassion and patients are the two most important things in this world, without them this world is lost.
I too have met Christians like you all have been talking about. The ones that hate gay people , which I do not hate gay people , democrats (I happen to be a democrat),non-believers or anyone for that matter.
The ones who use scare tactics to try to get people to come to God. God is almighty and Christ did come here to die for our sins. Yes God could stop all the suffering in this world, all the famine the disease. Why doesn’t He ? ? No one on this earth can answer that question ! Free will I do believe is a large part of the answer, not the whole answer. God wants us to follow Him because we want to not because we have to. Who wants someone to love them becuase they are forced, I know I wouldn’t. God is kind, and forgiving and will always be there whenever someone decides they want to go back to Him.
Now I know you all want PROOF. People have asked me so many times prove there is a God prove Jesus was the son of God. Faith can not be explained. Its not a science, faith is simply that FAITH. It should not be confused with hate though, so many people think because they believe in God and Jesus they must hate all those who do not believe, no no no ! ! Jesus Himself kept company with the ones who were consider the most unrighteous. Jesus did not come here to save the righteous, He came here to save the sinners and no matter what our believes are we are ALL sinners.
How can God let the suffering of children go on ? I ask myself that question all the time , I’m not Him I can not answer that, but I have seen suffering He has stopped.
I have had so many people ask me when did I “find” God , that is where I am very blessed, there has never been a time when I did not know God. We didn’t go to church , my mother was not a religous nut, we just knew. We never had Bible night or Bible Studies, we just have always known.
I know a lot of you are reading this saying oh here we go again another Christian nut job. Thats ok I’ve been called worse , by other so called Christians as a matter of fact.
I can’t prove to you that God exist I can only make one suggestion read the book of Revalations and please try to have an open mind. His profecies are happening , all around us. He showed those things to John, I belive it was John over 2000 years ago, and they are all happening. Its amazing. Read it with an open mind. I have told so many people if you don’t read any other book in the Bible just read Revalations if nothing else its a great “story” and then sit back and think about it. Don’t think of it as a Christian document think about it as a book a man named John wrote 2000 years ago ~ and then think about what he wrote about in his modest exisitance and what the world has become. Please think about it, please don’t blow it off before you really give it a honest and true thought.
I look forward to reading more on this page, I think by reading so many different views on things it makes you stop and think. That is how I differ from so many of fellow Christians , I know so many who would forbid a blog like this to even be read in their house, I think that is a sin in itself.
People need a place to exchange ideas , to grow not just spiritually but mentally. You open your mind to new ideas and you’d be amazed what can flow into you !
May God bless you all in everything you do : )I know He has blessed me so much in my life ! Even though I don’t have the easiest life I always tell myself there is ALWAYS someone worse off then I am.
Remember the book of Revalations : )
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I’m an atheist, straight up.
I love that Jesus Christ. Whether you believe he
was son of god, a prophet or just a con artist. You can still follow him, i use his teachings throughout my daily life, he taught, love, compassion, humility, and all the things Humanity could use right now, and common, he loved his people so much, he died for them, thought he was going to go to heaven, but still. I follow Jesus, like one might follow Buddha.
I will not believe in god until he smites someone dead in front of me, and rings out through the heavens, “I am here!”. I’m not afraid of what will happen to me in death, all things die, eternity of sleep might not be so bad, I’m not worried about hell, because it’s an unwell known fact that Hell only appeared into Christianity 400 after Jesus’s death. (possibly stolen from the name of the underworld home of a Norse Witch, called ‘Hel’), the same could easily be said about Satan himself. (or.. as evidence shows ‘herself’). A logical person could even trace back to the conception of deities in general.
Great Chieftain—–
became a spirit——
became a spirit that had some power——
the ’spirit’ tale could be changed slowly over the years to be more interesting.. etc—–
had children(did somebody say Pantheon???)—–
The tale somehow became linked with the universal question “how did we get here?”———–
enter – ZEUS ODIN RA –
became omnipotent/omniscient——
enter – God as we know him – (HIM! SEE! the tale still has roots in his conception!)
this would happen over the course of millennia (clearly)
“FIMF”
“For Humanity I stand,”
“I’m not alone.”
“My people are standing in front of me.”
“Facing the wrong direct.”
~ HumanPatriot ~
ok I love this. I see why your annoyed because most of the christian’s people meet in there live’s arnt christian’s at all. they dont even understand there own belief’s. Im not bashing them because I am a christian. I’m bashing false prophet’s. call me narrow minded for believing In christianity I dare you to take me on as of why I do believe it. (email: renima12@yahoo.com)
Your mad at us for following and obeying what we believe to be true. If you had something that could save one’s life would you not pass it on?. the only christian’s most of you have scene are from developed nation’s that are rapped up in the idea that we deside what is right, and we should tolerate everything. GO to north korea, go to sudan, go to any place in the world where christianity is continually persecuted at leve’s that surpass are wildest imagination’s and then you will meet christian’s.
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You can read more of what God had to say during the month of Aug. 2007, on this website
Non-Prophet, Are you going to Hell? Melanie also gives PROOF that God
made contact on this site. The proof is in the story of 3 famous people Mike Douglas, Merv
Griffin and Nancy Reagan. I hope you get it. God went to a lot of trouble to get his message
out. He is also worried about all of his creations. This is what God said on Aug. 15, 2007: “We each die in succession, then we are born on the same day.”
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